All the recent discussion about crowded public land hunting got me to thinking about what the future holds. Anybody that is familiar with big game hunting in the western states could speculate that turkey hunting is eventually headed in the same direction,...that is, limiting overall permit numbers, allotting them through drawings, and putting a cap on nonresident hunter numbers.
Yes, some states are already doing that with turkey hunting now, but it is surprising that it seems some of the states that most need to consider doing this are not. The solutions to some of the crowding issues on public lands, and how increasing nonresident hunter numbers play into that, seem glaringly apparent to me. I just wonder how long it is going to take before it happens in those places that need it?...
Doubt it will change with the amount of money states pull in from non-residents...especially here. The ones that have the power to make changes won't because of the almighty dollar.
When the locals at the places being hit hard voice their concerns to the proper people in charge it will happen, some places are already making minor changes which is good, hopefully not too little too late.
I have been traveling to other states to hunt public land turkeys since the late 90s, wish I would have hit more of them early on!
Hopefully states can mix it up and make some places draw type or limited entry and keep some straight OTC, shifting the season dates later and some good weather will hopefully create some good hatches, a couple good hatches in a row can go a long way!
I hunt Missouri public and private in the same general area, and it is amazing the fluctuation of the bird numbers from year to year, and I almost none of it relates to hunting pressure in my opinion, the private is lightly hunted and the public has a fair amount of pressure, yet both seem to fluctuate in a similar fashion and the best area which is public has incredibly divers habitat.
What I have seen is pressure comes and goes. As a kid we had loads of people hunt the forest service ground during rifle deer season. Camps were everywhere. But then north Missouri got hot and it all stopped. The past 10-15 years has been light pressure. Same with turkeys. I used to see every flavor of out of state hunter 20 years ago but that has diminished as well. We have a stable population but nothing compared to the hay day in the 80's when you didnt walk to the gobbler 1/4 mile away you drive around the corner and went to the one 100 yards off the road. Some years see pressure and others have none. It's just nature of the beast.
Quote from: Mossyguy on March 22, 2021, 10:22:05 AM
Doubt it will change with the amount of money states pull in from non-residents...especially here. The ones that have the power to make changes won't because of the almighty dollar.
Unfortunately the money is what it's all about. Colorado makes millions from non-resident tags, big game tags, fishing, etc. it's a major portion of the Parks and Wildlife budget. If states start limiting non-resident licenses, they will loose huge dollars. Unfortunately the animals rarely even enter the picture until they see license sales drop due to wildlife decreases. It's a shame that the resource comes in second in importance to the revenue generated which is often spent before it's collected. Great post..
Well, just about every state says hunting is dying with fewer and fewer hunters yet there appears to be more and more pressure. Somebody's full of it.
Quote from: Turkeyman on March 22, 2021, 05:23:27 PM
Well, just about every state says hunting is dying with fewer and fewer hunters yet there appears to be more and more pressure. Somebody's full of it.
I see the same thing duck hunting. Suppesedly hunter numbers are dying but everywhere I go seems to be more pressure.
Quote from: Paulmyr on March 22, 2021, 05:49:52 PM
Quote from: Turkeyman on March 22, 2021, 05:23:27 PM
Well, just about every state says hunting is dying with fewer and fewer hunters yet there appears to be more and more pressure. Somebody's full of it.
I see the same thing duck hunting. Suppesedly hunter numbers are dying but everywhere I go seems to be more pressure.
I've noticed the same thing for waterfowl. Being from the Northeast I always assumed it was loss of access to huntable lands due to development pushing guys to hunt more public ground. Can't say I've noticed the same for turkey hunting yet, with pressure relatively the same year to year.
I feel for the southern states who are seeing increased pressure from out of staters. I'd be interested to know what percentage of those traveling hunters are actually successful in harvesting one or multiple birds. If the majority of them hunt anything like the typical public land hunters I encounter, I would think they would have very little impact on population decline. Now a decline in quality of hunting for residents because of increased hunter numbers, that I could see.
Just like any other natural resource, turkey numbers can only sustain a certain percentage of population partaking in hunting. I miss the days before hunting was "cool".
Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
As a kid every farmer would let you hunt. Private places are going to leases and public is all that is left to most folks. The future in my opinion is one to pay to play. Or fight ever increasing crowds on public
Florida has already gone to a significant draw system with both ultra nice special opportunity hunts as well as regular quota hunts on many WMAs. The opening nonquota hunts are pretty crazy from what I've heard.
MS has gone to draw quota hunts on the best WMAs for the first 2 weeks before opening to anyone.
I think that trend (of more draw hunts) will continue as the number of hunters on public continually increase while the number of birds available to harvest decreases.
What's really scary is if turkeys become valued like other big game. There's a ton of people out west not thinking twice about applying for $1000 elk tags or even paying $7500 for a private land elk hunt. South Florida is the closest... I bet it's hard to get a private land Osceola hunt for less than $1000.
Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk
1k for a private land Elk tag is like winning the lottery in NM!
5k and up for premier units and you will actually hunt public land on some of those tags!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If you find an Osceola hunt anywhere near 1k make sure you go ahead and book for the next 5yrs, 10 if he'll let you lol...
Quote from: GobbleNut on March 22, 2021, 10:15:59 AM
All the recent discussion about crowded public land hunting got me to thinking about what the future holds. Anybody that is familiar with big game hunting in the western states could speculate that turkey hunting is eventually headed in the same direction,...that is, limiting overall permit numbers, allotting them through drawings, and putting a cap on nonresident hunter numbers.
Yes, some states are already doing that with turkey hunting now, but it is surprising that it seems some of the states that most need to consider doing this are not. The solutions to some of the crowding issues on public lands, and how increasing nonresident hunter numbers play into that, seem glaringly apparent to me. I just wonder how long it is going to take before it happens in those places that need it?...
It's hard to say what will happen in the west. The amount of public land in the east isn't even comparable to what it is out west. For instance Kentucky has just a hair over 1 million public land acres as compared to over 27 million in montana. If you add in blm land it's even more. So the over crowding issues just aren't the same.
Quote from: tazmaniac on March 22, 2021, 07:13:04 PM
Florida has already gone to a significant draw system with both ultra nice special opportunity hunts as well as regular quota hunts on many WMAs. The opening nonquota hunts are pretty crazy from what I've heard.
MS has gone to draw quota hunts on the best WMAs for the first 2 weeks before opening to anyone.
I think that trend (of more draw hunts) will continue as the number of hunters on public continually increase while the number of birds available to harvest decreases.
What's really scary is if turkeys become valued like other big game. There's a ton of people out west not thinking twice about applying for $1000 elk tags or even paying $7500 for a private land elk hunt. South Florida is the closest... I bet it's hard to get a private land Osceola hunt for less than $1000.
Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk
WMA's may be draws, but NF land is open. So....result is....all the pressure diverted
From the managed lands to the open lands!
Private leases ????????????and away!
Quote from: Jstocks on March 22, 2021, 08:14:03 PM
Quote from: tazmaniac on March 22, 2021, 07:13:04 PM
Florida has already gone to a significant draw system with both ultra nice special opportunity hunts as well as regular quota hunts on many WMAs. The opening nonquota hunts are pretty crazy from what I've heard.
MS has gone to draw quota hunts on the best WMAs for the first 2 weeks before opening to anyone.
I think that trend (of more draw hunts) will continue as the number of hunters on public continually increase while the number of birds available to harvest decreases.
What's really scary is if turkeys become valued like other big game. There's a ton of people out west not thinking twice about applying for $1000 elk tags or even paying $7500 for a private land elk hunt. South Florida is the closest... I bet it's hard to get a private land Osceola hunt for less than $1000.
Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk
WMA's may be draws, but NF land is open. So....result is....all the pressure diverted
From the managed lands to the open lands!
Private leases ????????????and away!
True that! Exactly why I have been hunting (unsuccessfully) on national forest with the crowds. :)
But something has to give, just not enough birds for all the hunters. I think the average for MS WMAs (supposed to be the best public land hunting) is around 30 man days afield per bird harvested.
Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk
Predictions for the future- All Hunting-
Becomes more limited, more restricted, more expensive, and more unavailable to everyone but the wealthy and elite.
Betcha $5 I'm right.
History says so.
As to hunter numbers...
I believe that overall hunter numbers may be declining. But- what I have witnessed over the last 25 years is that the average hunter is hunting more and different game. In the 80's and some of the 90's in my area- you had many who just hunted deer ( and mostly firearms season). Today - those same people are turkey hunting, some are are waterfowl and/or archery hunting for deer , and some hunt the muzzleloader season. Even with less overall numbers of hunters- it is more crowded with those "fewer " hunters - hunting other species besides deer.
The future as I see it will be determined by access to hunting property. The available property becomes less each and every year for private land. Access to private land is becoming in more cases - a $$$ game. This puts increased pressure on public hunting. Time will tell