i have always used aluminum.they have always worked . but i figured it was time to change. this is the first year that i will be shooting carbon.
i did some homework but really was not sure what to go with when i got to the pro shop.
i ended up going with Beman ICS Hunters 400. i think the next time i buy a dozen i might go with Carbon express. what shaffs do you shoot and recommend??
Good question Shawn. You can't go wrong with Carbon Express or Gold Tips. Carbon express Maximas are the cats a$$. I prefer The Gold Tip arrows my self. I shoot the Pro Hunter 340's. They have a straightness tolerance of .001". Hands down the toughest carbon on the market. The Easton FMJ(Full Metal Jackets) Are the most durable. The are aluminum wrapped carbon arrows. I also do like the HIT inserts(Hidden Insert Technology). The down side is there weight, there about 11 grains per inch. The Gold Tips are 8.9 gpi. From there you can go to arrow diameter. The Easton Axis arrows have super thin shafts. And so do the Gold Tip Kinetic arrows.
Changing over from aluminum arrows the first thing you probably noticed was the vanes. It wont be long(maybe a year) and 4" vanes will be a thing of the past. There's a whole lot of science behind Blazers(short vanes). Basically it comes down to "weight forward of center". Weight forward is basically moving the center balance point of your arrow closer to the tip. Think of a pole vaulter. When they stick the pole in the ground and vault them selves up there is a lot of bend in the pole. You don't want that for hunting or target shooting. The farther forward you move your center balance point the less your arrow is going to bend. The less it bends the quicker it stabilizes in flight. The quicker it stabilizes the more accurate of a shooter you will become. You will shoot tighter groups at longer distances. The shorter vanes create less wind drift also. Now on to penetration. Grab an arrow at the fletching and the tip and bend it lightly back and forth. There is some give there. When your arrow hits it's target it bends and you loose some kinetic energy which you need for penetration. Now grab it in the middle and at the tip and bend it again. Less flexing. You don't loose as much kinetic energy giving you more penetration when you hit skin, bone, muscle. In a nutshell that's what moving your weight forward of center just a little bit does for you.
If you would like me to explain this a little better to you pm me. I know I kind of just rambled through it.
Nik
thanks Nik. i do understand what you are saying. thanks for the reply!! very interesting
I hunt with Gold Tip Ultralight Series 22 arrows. I also shoot them with my compitetion bow. To get the most sraightness out of your arrows, cut atleast an inch off both ends and then cut them to lenght. Don't get caught up too much in the staightness of them because most people wont notice with a hunting bow anyway.
I used to shoot the Easton Axis arrows and loved them. The penetration even in a bag target is incredible. I switched to the Lumen Arrows, which are larger diameter and made by Victory since I got a good deal on them. I am down to 6 of the original 12 (lost 2, shot the back end of 4 others trying to shoot groups). They shoot well, but I will be switching back to the Axis or Full Metal Jackets once I get below 5 of the LumenArrows I'm shooting now. I see a noticeable difference in penetration. The Axis arrows are similar in diameter to the Beeman ICS arrows.
I like the hidden inserts in the Axis arrows as well.
I also bought one of the Bohning fletching jigs for the blazer style vanes, but chose to use the duravane Fusion vanes (shield cut shape). I'm getting good results with these, which are the first 2" vanes I have used.
The fusion vanes are awesome! That's all I use and I love them. :icon_thumright: :icon_thumright:
I shoot Beman ICS Hunters 400's as well. They have the vibrake inserts and knocks as well, which i think is a noticeable difference on grouping from the regular knocks and inserts. I have the 2 inch NAP quick spin vanes on them and i am pretty happy with them as well. I too am thinking about trying different arrows just for something new probably Carbon Express maximas or mayhems but I haven't made up my mind yet.
I noticed that a couple of you have stated that you shoot a 400 spined arrow. I take it that you are shooting very light poundage and or a very short draw length? I am curious of the draw weight you are shooting and what is the total length of your arrow?
As for carbon arrows I highly recommend supporting a USA made arrow company. Easton is the only one that offers such that I am aware of.
The Beman ICS Bowhunter Elite shafts have a .001 straightness tolerance and the are made by Easton here in the USA.
Gold Tip is made in Mexico and Carbon Express is made in China. Sometimes we have no choices offered for made in USA products but actually Easton is the leader in arrow technology.
Good luck with whatever you choose in chasing those longbeards this spring..
Goldtip Pro Hunter
GSLAM95 i'm shooting a Beman ICS Hunter at 28" with a 28"DL at 65#
paper tuning i am getting a perfect hole also getting great groups out to 60yds
Carbon Express all the way for me!
Mayhem Hunters & Maxima Hunters.
Tough as nails so far...
mudhen
Quotei have always used aluminum.they have always worked . but i figured it was time to change. this is the first year that i will be shooting carbon.
i did some homework but really was not sure what to go with when i got to the pro shop.
i ended up going with Beman ICS Hunters 400. i think the next time i buy a dozen i might go with Carbon express. what shaffs do you shoot and recommend??
Ics Hunters are a fine shaft..I use Gold tips arrows but the Bemans are just as good.Quote from: GSLAM95 on April 03, 2011, 12:50:18 PM
I noticed that a couple of you have stated that you shoot a 400 spined arrow. I take it that you are shooting very light poundage and or a very short draw length? I am curious of the draw weight you are shooting and what is the total length of your arrow?
As for carbon arrows I highly recommend supporting a USA made arrow company. Easton is the only one that offers such that I am aware of.
The Beman ICS Bowhunter Elite shafts have a .001 straightness tolerance and the are made by Easton here in the USA.
Gold Tip is made in Mexico and Carbon Express is made in China. Sometimes we have no choices offered for made in USA products but actually Easton is the leader in arrow technology.
Good luck with whatever you choose in chasing those longbeards this spring..
Not sure where you got your info..But .400 spine isnt that weak of a spine .Yes total spine is determined by shaft length an draw weight an Cam design or efficiency..Take a single cam mathews switchback say 70lb an 28in draw..a .400 spine cut to 27inch with 100grain tips would work fine..Its a softer cam..Take a more aggressive bow like a mathews monster an an you would need a .300 spine or stiffer with the same specs as the switchback...Arrow charts are a good starting point..But the OLD WAY of determining spine isnt effective with modern technology..Computer softaware for arrow spine selection if far superior..I shoot a .400 spine cut to 27in at 62lb an 28in DL..100grain heads..An that is still a stiff spine out of my 2010 Elite Z28.
As for the Easton carbon shafts being made in the USA..Call easton an ask them..You will be surprised to find that NO major arrow manufacture gets there raw carbon shafts ,manufactured in the usa..There all overseas..It simply cost to much to manufacture them in the USA..Aluminum is a different story
I shoot 55/75 Gold Tip traditionals cut at 27.5" from nock valley to end of 50gr. brass insert. 250 gr. head, 5" shield cut feathers. Shooting longbow 56# @26".
Flies like a dart!!!!!!
God Bless,
David B.
Quote from: VAHUNTER on April 05, 2011, 08:01:23 AM
GSLAM95 i'm shooting a Beman ICS Hunter at 28" with a 28"DL at 65#
paper tuning i am getting a perfect hole also getting great groups out to 60yds
Your set-up sounds fine, so why the talk of possible brand switch if it tunes well and groups well for you? Just curious, as you stated this was your 1st year with carbons. I thought you were possibly having issues but apparently not if you can group well at 60 yards.
Good luck chasing those longbeards this spring.
Quote from: ohiomossyoak on April 08, 2011, 10:36:19 PM
Not sure where you got your info..But .400 spine isnt that weak of a spine .Yes total spine is determined by shaft length an draw weight an Cam design or efficiency..Take a single cam mathews switchback say 70lb an 28in draw..a .400 spine cut to 27inch with 100grain tips would work fine..Its a softer cam..Take a more aggressive bow like a mathews monster an an you would need a .300 spine or stiffer with the same specs as the switchback...Arrow charts are a good starting point..But the OLD WAY of determining spine isnt effective with modern technology..Computer softaware for arrow spine selection if far superior..I shoot a .400 spine cut to 27in at 62lb an 28in DL..100grain heads..An that is still a stiff spine out of my 2010 Elite Z28.
As for the Easton carbon shafts being made in the USA..Call easton an ask them..You will be surprised to find that NO major arrow manufacture gets there raw carbon shafts ,manufactured in the usa..There all overseas..It simply cost to much to manufacture them in the USA..Aluminum is a different story
If you look and read my 1st post in it's entirety I asked for more info to determine if his set-up was weak spined. Since the OP of the thread made mention that he is trying carbons now for the 1st time this year and is already thinking of switching brands I thought the question was more than appropriate.
As for calling Easton I have no need as my Easton Rep Jared Washburn was at my shop less than a month ago and I have a list of what shafts are not made in the USA.
The Beman ICS shafts are made in the USA!
Perhaps someone is misleading you? Check and reveal your source as I did and we can continue from there.
Good luck chasing those longbeards..GSLAM95
Quote from: GSLAM95 on April 11, 2011, 10:35:48 AM
Quote from: ohiomossyoak on April 08, 2011, 10:36:19 PM
Not sure where you got your info..But .400 spine isnt that weak of a spine .Yes total spine is determined by shaft length an draw weight an Cam design or efficiency..Take a single cam mathews switchback say 70lb an 28in draw..a .400 spine cut to 27inch with 100grain tips would work fine..Its a softer cam..Take a more aggressive bow like a mathews monster an an you would need a .300 spine or stiffer with the same specs as the switchback...Arrow charts are a good starting point..But the OLD WAY of determining spine isnt effective with modern technology..Computer softaware for arrow spine selection if far superior..I shoot a .400 spine cut to 27in at 62lb an 28in DL..100grain heads..An that is still a stiff spine out of my 2010 Elite Z28.
As for the Easton carbon shafts being made in the USA..Call easton an ask them..You will be surprised to find that NO major arrow manufacture gets there raw carbon shafts ,manufactured in the usa..There all overseas..It simply cost to much to manufacture them in the USA..Aluminum is a different story
If you look and read my 1st post in it's entirety I asked for more info to determine if his set-up was weak spined. Since the OP of the thread made mention that he is trying carbons now for the 1st time this year and is already thinking of switching brands I thought the question was more than appropriate.
As for calling Easton I have no need as my Easton Rep Jared Washburn was at my shop less than a month ago and I have a list of what shafts are not made in the USA.
The Beman ICS shafts are made in the USA!
Perhaps someone is misleading you? Check and reveal your source as I did and we can continue from there.
Good luck chasing those longbeards..GSLAM95
100% of the Bemans ICS shafts are made in the USA??You are aware of the production/labor cost to make them in the USA..At the price of the ICS Beman/Easton has to be losing there butt.
Good luck to you as well
thank you GSLAM95 :icon_thumright: that was the point of the post. was not sure if the 400's was stiff enough at 28" i do not believe that you can be over spined but know that you can be under.
Hey guys i am just getting back on the site, I have the OT2 Archery Program, if you want me to run the numbers for your setup give me the info and i can let you know what the program says for spine