As an individual who has owned, shot, carried, and reloaded for every model of 10 gauge made since 1975, with the exception of some of the S/S's and O/U's, I feel that I can opine on what I consider the biggest "Myth" concerning 10 gauge shotguns. This "Myth" is that of you can't hunt or kill successfully with a 12 gauge, that "bigger is better", and you will succeed with a 10 gauge. I known several horrible wing shots and turkey hunters who felt that the additional downrange pellet count and pattern would be the panacea for all their "shooting ills". In every case, of which I'm aware, that a 10 gauge was purchased to address the perceived problems of a 12 gauge, the results were less than stellar. If you can't shoot a 12 gauge well, than you're at a greater disadvantage trying to shoot a 10 gauge. The first time I held a 31/2", 10 gauge shell in the field, I was awed and intrigued (all our guns were 23/4"). The first duck I killed with an older waterfowling mentors Spanish made 10 ga S/S, I was hooked. IMO, before we advise anyone to "get into 10's" make sure they are proficient with lessor gauges or have the time, money and inclination to learn to shoot a 10 gauge.
Most really good wing shooters laugh at those that feel the need for 3.5" 12 ga or even 10 ga.
When steel shot was mandated for waterfowling the limitations on 23/4" and 3" shells, esp. on big geese, became obvious. We freelanced for ducks and geese all over the country and layed-out in fields a lot. The 10 gauges were great pit guns, but too heavy for lay-out hunting. I played w/ an 835, but the originals were real clunkers. In 1990, I got an H&K/Benelli 31/2" which to this day is my favorite waterfowling gun. I've shot a lot of 31/2" shells goose and duck hunting and there are many days, esp. in heavy wind in fields and on open water, when the heavier payload w/ higher velocities really makes a difference. Over 30 years ago, one of the best wingshots I've ever known taught me the "art" of long distance wingshooting ie. 50-60 yards. He also instilled in me the philosophy that when you shoot at birds at those distances, it's not skybusting if you can consistently and reliably kill them.
Quote from: drenalinld on December 21, 2011, 01:55:37 PM
Most really good wing shooters laugh at those that feel the need for 3.5" 12 ga or even 10 ga.
That is the case with my waterfowl buddies..seemingly better cycling with shorter 3" shells not to mention easier on the wallet with shells. They drop geese and ducks left and right. I prefer a 12 ga 3" gun myself on wingshooting.
Quote from: decoykrvr on December 21, 2011, 01:47:50 PM
This "Myth" is that of you can't hunt or kill successfully with a 12 gauge, that "bigger is better", and you will succeed with a 10 gauge.
True. The 10 doesn't cover up mistakes. It amplifies them with the additional misery of extra weight to carry.
Then why does anyone need a 12ga. over a .410? Maybe its a 12 gauge "myth"?
At some point you need to follow the advice of Robert Ruark and, "Use Enough Gun." There are plenty of hunters on this site that will attest to the fact that a properly choked 20 gauge w/ good turkey loads is all that you need to kill turkeys, but most of those on this site who hunt w/ a 20 gauge are more skilled than the majority of turkey hunters in most aspects of the sport, but especially w/ their shotguns. I've killed large Canada geese w/ a 28 gauge and EM Classic Doubles shells, but the margin of error is significantly reduced and shots in excess of 35 yards shouldn't be attempted. A 28 gauge shotgun should not be used for hunting geese, ducks, or turkeys unless the conditions are absolutely optimal w/ close decoying birds. A 12 gauge, even with 23/4" shells, but better w/ 3' or 31/2" shells, is used by the majority of turkey hunters, and for good reason. Andy Devine, a movie and television sidekick of Roy Rogers and one of the best wingshots I've ever seen, hunted almost exclusively with a 410 shotgun, but he possessed a skill level attained by few shooters. I subscribe to the principle that the lack of shooting skills and prowess isn't remedied by shooting larger gauges or bores, but is in most cases amplified with negative results.
Quote from: nflorek on January 02, 2012, 01:27:37 PM
Then why does anyone need a 12ga. over a .410? Maybe its a 12 gauge "myth"?
Take a look at a bona fide 12 gauge turkey pattern (2 oz.-2.25 oz.) versus a .410 turkey load pattern (.75 oz )and decide which has better coverage in the 10" and 20" ring at 40-50 yards. In the 12 gauge 3.5" shell, Nitro Ammo reports 1200 fps in the 2 7/16 oz. load and 1240 fps in the 10 gauge 2.5 oz load. (Ok, I know about Nitro. However, there are lower pressure handloads over 2 oz. that do better than just "pretty good") The 12 gauge load is not far behind the 10 gauge load. Can't say the same about the .410 load versus the 12 gauge load, but you probably knew that already.
I turkey hunt with a 20ga., a 12ga., and a 10 ga. I enjoy hunting with them all. True you really do not need a 10 ga. to kill a turkey. I just like the BIG 10 and IMO that's reason enough to hunt with it. ;D
Quote from: nflorek on January 02, 2012, 01:27:37 PM
Then why does anyone need a 12ga. over a .410? Maybe its a 12 gauge "myth"?
Are you serious or just funnin'?
Quote from: WildTigerTrout on January 03, 2012, 07:48:39 PM
I turkey hunt with a 20ga., a 12ga., and a 10 ga. I enjoy hunting with them all. True you really do not need a 10 ga. to kill a turkey. I just like the BIG 10 and IMO that's reason enough to hunt with it. ;D
I handloaded for two 3.5" SxS 10 gauges from the late 1970s through the early 80s. Before then, I shot an Ithaca Mag 10 with Federal loads. Prior to the introduction of the 3.5" 12 gauge, nothing in 12 gauge came close the 10 back then.
I'm 30 years older and got tired of carrying a 12+ lb. auto (loaded) and 10.5 lb. + SxS's, especially since Mossy came out with the 835. I've missed turkeys with 10s and 12s. I've missed them with 20s. Now, when I'm a mile deep in the woods from where I parked my truck, I appreciate having a rig that is 6 lbs. lighter than the Mag 10 and close to 5 lbs. lighter than the SxSs. It does make a difference in my enjoyment, and I have confidence in the load and gun.
Your right about the weight difference. My 20 ga. is a full camo Benelli Nova 24" barrel. It's nice and light. If I know I'll be running and gunning it's my first choice. My 10 Ga. is a Browning BPS Stalker 24" barrel. It is heavy but man does it pattern great. I'm nearly 52 so I DO mind the weight more than when I was younger. I still like the BIG 10 though even with the added weight. It really puts the smack down on them big Old Gobblers!
Quote from: WildTigerTrout on January 03, 2012, 07:48:39 PM
I turkey hunt with a 20ga., a 12ga., and a 10 ga. I enjoy hunting with them all. True you really do not need a 10 ga. to kill a turkey. I just like the BIG 10 and IMO that's reason enough to hunt with it. ;D
:you_rock:
Same here.. if you dont want to carry a 10 don't. More shells for those that do on occasion.
That's pretty tight, . There can't be many more than 100 pellets in a .410 #4, right?
I've only carried my 10 gauge on three hunts - it's my opening day gun that I've owned for 3 years. I've killed two birds with it. Both of them could have been killed with a .410. First was about 10 feet and second was about 10 yards.
The third hunt I carried it, I had the fog roll and the bird never got closer than 50 yards. It wasn't a shot I was going to take even though it probably would have been a dead bird. So if you like shooting them close like I do, there is no reason to carry a 10 for killing purpose.
But just like I love my turkeys close -- I love my guns big and loud!!!
I don't think meant 100 pellets @40 of #4 shot out of the .410. I am guessing it's TSS. Probably #8 or #9. It is not apples to apples..
If tss ever makes it to the shelves those numbers might sway more folks. I dont like #9's regardless of energy. Thats a lot of shot to look for when cleaning the bird. Hopefully its all head and neck. pull a low shot and put some in the breast you might as well pass him under a metal detector before eating. tungsten 7's are bad enough to look for.
Quote from: gobbler74 on January 06, 2012, 09:09:59 AM
Hopefully its all head and neck. pull a low shot and put some in the breast you might as well pass him under a metal detector before eating. tungsten 7's are bad enough to look for.
The few that have entered the breast that I've shot were found on the otherside, under the skin, shot through and through with no feather pulls. Gil
Quote from: link=topic=14903.msg169155#msg169155 date=1325867714
Quote from: gobbler74 on January 06, 2012, 09:09:59 AM
If tss ever makes it to the shelves those numbers might sway more folks. I dont like #9's regardless of energy. Thats a lot of shot to look for when cleaning the bird. Hopefully its all head and neck. pull a low shot and put some in the breast you might as well pass him under a metal detector before eating. tungsten 7's are bad enough to look for.
I cleaned 7 birds killed with TSS #9s this year, and can count the number of pellets found in the breast on one hand. It just isn't a factor. On the other hand, #7 hevishot is a different story....
I'll be shooting some tss 8's in the 12 this year. Look forward to it.