I'll start this new area out with a obvious subject
no matter how seasoned or new a turkey hunter may be , over calling and how to recognize that your doing it is important to identify
If any of you would like to give some helpful pointers on different scenarios like , gobblers sounding off to you but not closing the gap , or gobblers gobbling ...comming in fast but your still calling anyway
Any pointers or input appreciated, there's plenty of newbies looking to learn something
Always start off light. You can always add more but you can't take anything back.
If a bird you're calling to stands in one spot gobbling, he may be displaying waiting on you. Stop calling him.
Best you play disinterested but there if that makes sense. I'll give you a scenario. It also includes a bird standing there gobbling but not closing.
Last year I took a young hunter out. We heard some gobbling near where I though they would be. Didn't get to roost night before.
Couple of soft tree yelps n that was it. Just to say we were around. Often it's best to do nothing but on this property the line is maybe 100 yards up n that's how they often go or they fly down below into the corn.
We were on a hill.
Bird flies down n was leaving. Walking down the hill. I did a fly down n he answered, you could even hear him turn. He started back up n we waited. The bird stood there in one spot gobbling. The woods were open n I'd guess he was displaying for her to see coming down.
After a bit he gobbled more n almost had a "where are you?" In his gobble.
I'd bet if we yelped back he'd have gobbled great n just kept displaying.
I purred/clucked like a hen very intent on only food n not him. Couple of light barely audible leaf scratches thrown in to pull off the feeding up on the hill thing.
Nothing more. The bird went crazy n each time he gobbled he was getting closer. Doing nothing-positive response. Finially he got 20 yards n that was all she wrote cept for the congrats.
At any time had we over called that bird I'd bet if not have that story
When a Gobblers sounding off and not closing the gap I cutt them off mid gobble with Yelping or Cutts and then give them the silent treatment. If that don't work and i think i can get away with closing the gap and not get busted depending on the terrain I might do that.
The problem with turkey calling is that it involves one species (us) trying to communicate with another species (turkeys) when, in reality, we are just guessing at what we are communicating when we call to them. If we call to them and they come, we feel like we know what we did,...and we did it right,....and when we call to them and they don't come, we just figure we didn't say the right thing to them.
We assume that if we call a lot and they don't come that we "over-called", but that is just a guess on our part. Then again, at times we call sparingly and they come,...and we then assume that if we had called aggressively, they wouldn't have. The fact is that if we kill a gobbler by calling very little, we really don't have a clue as to whether that same bird would have come running in to aggressive calling.
Turkey calling is our "best guess" at a specific time and place as to what will work to fool a gobbler,...and nothing more. Having said all of that, here's my recommendation in any given situation: Start out conservatively with your calling, and if that doesn't work, try something different,...and if that doesn't work, try something else,...and so on, and so on until you either conclude that the gobbler is not going to come to you, or you hit on something that trips his trigger.
I haven't really kept track over the years, but in thinking about it, I have killed more turkeys by finally getting aggressive with them when they would not respond to passive tactics than I have by sticking to conservative tactics and having them finally come around. Just as you can "aggressive call" yourself right out of the game, you can also "conservative call" yourself out of the game just as easily.
That's not to say that you are not going to scare a gobbler into the next county sometimes when you get aggressive with them. It happens. But don't presume that just because you are hunting somewhere that the "accepted wisdom" is to not call much that you should not even try it. I can tell you from personal experience that aggressive calling will, at the right time, kill birds in places where it is supposed to send them running.
Moral of the story: Don't be afraid to "let 'er rip" sometimes when calling to them and they are acting obstinate. Sometimes that is exactly what they want,...even when YOU don't think it is.
Lots of good info so far, so other than what's already been said.
This may sound a bit odd but I basically do not respond to a toms gobble... Here's what I mean by that, so the first gobble I hear I will make a "contact" call response just so that let's him know I'm in the area, from that point if he gobbles I do not respond to him immediately, I'll wait a few minutes or so before I call and wait for him to respond to me. So what's in my head with this is if I respond immediately to his gobble I am sounding like I am interested in him, but if I have him answering me he is now more interested in me/my calling. And not to say I still "Take his Temperature" and play the game by how he responds and I still do this with the soft calls and when I'm working him in hard & fast.
MK M GOBL
The last few posts were on the money too. Prob is most new folks do call too much. I initially wrote about more aggressive calling but it's def not the way to start. Taking the temp n positive negative response are key. I've myself killed birds aggressive too but it's best not to start the day or learning the sport imo by calling lots
Agree with the above posts. If a bird has answered you and he is cutting the distance, shut up. Believe me, that bird knows your exact location. I've called to birds and had them come in to within 3 yards of my exact location, looking straight at me. You aren't getting video for a TV drama show, so don't get caught up in making the birds Gobble all the way to the tip of your gun barrel.
Intentional silence is the best call of them all. You have to let him know you are there, but after that every additional call is made at your peril. I listen for a gobble with just a little more gusto and then switch the caller for the gun. It was good enough for Charles L. Jordan and it is good enough for me.
Quote from: bbcoach on February 06, 2017, 05:08:45 PM
Agree with the above posts. If a bird has answered you and he is cutting the distance, shut up. Believe me, that bird knows your exact location. I've called to birds and had them come in to within 3 yards of my exact location, looking straight at me. You aren't getting video for a TV drama show, so don't get caught up in making the birds Gobble all the way to the tip of your gun barrel.
X2! Gobbles are addictive...
When you hear them, you want to hear more. Wanting to hear more, you call more. In my opinion, this is one of the hardest hurdles to cross as a new turkey hunter. I've been chasing theses silly birds for over 35 years and I still love to hear the gobble.
Gobbles are addictive...
Calling... As little as possible, as much as is needed...
More often than not, I do not call in the bird that I am calling at (but they are almost always "henned up.")
It is those bachelor birds that hang up, that I know I could have done something different with. Too much or not enough, or some little sound that I could make that would just send them over the edge running right to me.
I usually start off conservative, and build up from there... I have had some degree of luck in moving parallel or even away from birds that are "hung up." I have rarely (if ever) had success at getting more aggressive with these birds, but sometimes if they think the hen is moving away, they will come in. This can be even more successful if there is another distant bird gobbling, and you call while walking towards that bird.
Early in the morning, I generally address the hen more so than the toms.... If I can irritate a hen enough to come into me, likely a tom will be in tow.
All these post are really spot on..I will add i have seen and killed birds that will only come into gun range with just gobbling. If you hen call they will just strut in that one sport for hours...I have killed several birds that gobbling was the only way to keep them moving my way...Agree with gobbling it is a safety issue , so make sure safety first...
Odds are, if he responds well he will eventually come in. The timing may just not adhere to your schedule. Over calling, as in you are doing all the talking, probably tends to convince toms that you are coming to them more so than it does to "scare them off". If he's henned up then sometimes it works great to hammer it out to try to peeve off the boss hen till she comes in to settle things, with him in tow. Other times when you get half hearted sporadic gobbles it may simply be a subordinate tom that is more shy about a boss tom lurking in the area than a hunter. Those times you might be better served to go silent and wait patiently. Either way, if he comes in and you kill him then does it matter why other than it worked? Hunting pressure is a real factor IMHO and many learn that quickly where there is real hunting pressure. Turkeys cannot reason but if you hunt the same place the same way from the same areas and call the same every time and also bump turkeys, well they can be imprinted with the pattern, ignore calling at times etc, etc. So, hunt by trial and error and don't be afraid to think outside of the box. You won't know till you try and you will remember what works. I raised dumb arse domestic turkeys when I was a kid. You can teach them to avoid you very quickly and very easily with a little stick in your hand. Imagine what you can do by spraying one with a shot gun and running at him. :)
I don't think there is a wrong reply here. I like to run and gun and tend to call a lot. Does that cost me a bird or two? Sure but I'm looking for birds that fire up and are fun. I'm always banking there's another bird on the next hill (which is not the case) but that's how I like to hunt them. If I'm dedicated to one specific bird, it's a feeling out process. Time of day has a lot do with as well as time of season. If I have found him deep in and think he hasn't been called to a lot I'm likely to get more aggressive with him. If he's closer to a logging road, I'm gonna set up away from there and call sparingly with a heavy dose of leaf scratching and doing my best to keep moving slightly as to present a live hen. Every situation is different. One tactic I employ to a henned up gobbler on the limb is to tree yelp with a few different calls and then hammer a few fly downs. Walk away cutting about 60 or 70 yards and then slip back to my original spot. He will likely go quiet after he hits the ground but give him 10 or 15 minutes. Seems like it plays to their ego that a couple of hens just walked away from him. I never call again but I've had many fire up and come searching with hens all around them. It's always a play it by ear thing and the most important factor is experience, just my opinion.
Quote from: Rzrbac on February 07, 2017, 02:08:58 PM
One tactic I employ to a henned up gobbler on the limb is to tree yelp with a few different calls and then hammer a few fly downs. Walk away cutting about 60 or 70 yards and then slip back to my original spot. He will likely go quiet after he hits the ground but give him 10 or 15 minutes. Seems like it plays to their ego that a couple of hens just walked away from him. I never call again but I've had many fire up and come searching with hens all around them. It's always a play it by ear thing and the most important factor is experience, just my opinion.
Interesting tactic and I suspect it could work well in a situation where you could get away with it. I think a point to be made here to the less experienced is that those kinds of tactics require very specific situations where you can get away with that kind of moving around. Under a lot of circumstances, trying to get away with that sort of thing, especially in relatively open country, is a sure way to get busted by a group of roosted turkeys.
Quote from: GobbleNut on February 07, 2017, 02:39:29 PM
Quote from: Rzrbac on February 07, 2017, 02:08:58 PM
One tactic I employ to a henned up gobbler on the limb is to tree yelp with a few different calls and then hammer a few fly downs. Walk away cutting about 60 or 70 yards and then slip back to my original spot. He will likely go quiet after he hits the ground but give him 10 or 15 minutes. Seems like it plays to their ego that a couple of hens just walked away from him. I never call again but I've had many fire up and come searching with hens all around them. It's always a play it by ear thing and the most important factor is experience, just my opinion.
Interesting tactic and I suspect it could work well in a situation where you could get away with it. I think a point to be made here to the less experienced is that those kinds of tactics require very specific situations where you can get away with that kind of moving around. Under a lot of circumstances, trying to get away with that sort of thing, especially in relatively open country, is a sure way to get busted by a group of roosted turkeys.
I was taught something similar n still use it today. It involves 2 hunters, one backing away calling n the other setting tight. Often the birds keep their distance from the caller but walk right to the gunner. Last year I employed this exact tactic not to roosting birds but birds stuck too far out. Only backed up maybe 60 yards or so n the birds came closer. An early bee so my younger daughter thought made her start squirming just as my older daughter was ready to shoot. I was taught this trick 30 years ago n it still works
Gobblenut you're right. I'm hunting public and it's almost all timber with some of it fairly thick. It's southern Missouri so most of the time it has greened up quite a bit. Several years ago we had a late frost and really opened up the timber. To pull off that tactic a guy would have to back off quite a bit. Another thing about that tactic is having a good idea the time birds have been flying down. I usually make note of that every morning. Timing on that tactic is important. It's worth noting those darn birds don't always keep to my schedule ;)
Quote from: THattaway on February 07, 2017, 01:48:08 PM
Odds are, if he responds well he will eventually come in. The timing may just not adhere to your schedule. Over calling, as in you are doing all the talking, probably tends to convince toms that you are coming to them more so than it does to "scare them off".
Another issue calling causes is to make hens come in and steal that Tom away...
Saw a bachelor tom last year, and had him coming right to me (later in the morning after most hens were likely on the nest)... Every time he disappeared behind a knoll or tree, I called at him, which fired him up... About 100 yards away, and here comes a hen, and takes him off in the opposite direction.
Sometimes, you can irritate a dominant hen into coming in to fight, but it seems that more often, it causes them to head off a tom and take them in a different direction than you... You could be sitting in a spot that those birds would have eventually come, but your calling makes a hen (or hens) pull that tom off in a different direction to avoid further competition...
I find the idea of irritating the boss hen into leading the Gobbler to the hunter a bit strange. I tried this a couple of times and it never worked. I must have been doing something wrong.
But to me it seems counter productive to make all that racket rather than come back a few hours later when the hens have probably left the gobbler anyway. Maybe on the last day of the season it would make sense if you still had an unfilled tag.
Quote from: mtns2hunt on February 15, 2017, 12:17:24 AM
I find the idea of irritating the boss hen into leading the Gobbler to the hunter a bit strange. I tried this a couple of times and it never worked. I must have been doing something wrong.
But to me it seems counter productive to make all that racket rather than come back a few hours later when the hens have probably left the gobbler anyway. Maybe on the last day of the season it would make sense if you still had an unfilled tag.
It usually does not work.
I think most of us would be hard-pressed to name a tactic that worked most of the time it was used... If such a tactic were published, there would be far fewer turkeys at the end of the season.
I have had no other tactics work to pull in a tom with hens...
It does not work all that often, but then again, I have had no success in pulling in toms with hens using any other tactics or methods... Irritate that dominant hen into coming into you, and she will bring a tom (or toms) with her.
Admittedly, I have a huge advantage over most other hunters when utilizing this method... I am extremely proficient at irritating women (just ask my wife).
I have tried gobbling and fighting purrs, and have had no success... That is not to say I will not continue to try these methods (especially when all else fails). I'm guessin' one day I will be glad I tried.