How many of you out there hunt without diaphragm calls. I ask because i struggle with consistency on them and have messed up several birds that i struck with other calls. I can make all the turkeys sounds individually but i struggle to put together solid calling sequences without having an off note or a terrible squeak in there somewhere. I'm still going to practice with them but have been leaving them at home more often than not. So out of curiosity how many are successful without the use of diaphrams?
I can't use them. I start to gag, every couple of years I try and just can not get use to it, I am going to try again this summer with a smaller frame call. I have got all my birds using pot and box calls. The toughest part is trying to run the call with the gun up, but I manage to get it to work.
I carry one but use it very little. I am average on one and have no desire to improve. I keep one in my cheek as I use a trumpet in case I have to cluck at him to get him to stop or break strut, other than that I do not have much use for one.
I keep one in my mouth but rely on pot calls mostly. I may throw some yelps out there now and then as I think I can do those pretty consistently. Sometimes aggressive purring and clucking if a bird is hung up because I can do those with a diaphragm better than I can with a pot. Cutting and quiet purring is reserved for the pot call. I also use the diaphragm to make a loud cluck to get one to raise their head or just stop and look when I'm trying to take a shot.
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Never use them anymore.. if i feel i need mouth call, i will use my push pin call instead. Push pin is way over looked in my opinion in helping kill gobblers.
Carry one quite often. Use it regularly. Won't leave home without it. I use pots too but I like to use a diaphragm to finish birds.
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I have spring gobbler hunted for 46-47 years and have never carried a mouth call. I like boxes and pots but my go to or finisher I like to call them is always a push/pin of some sort. last couple years I have had great success with the barrel mount/gun mount types.
Quote from: davisd9 on May 19, 2021, 10:17:43 AM
I carry one but use it very little. I am average on one and have no desire to improve. I keep one in my cheek as I use a trumpet in case I have to cluck at him to get him to stop or break strut, other than that I do not have much use for one.
This is exactly what I have done this season. Cant see myself changing anytime soon.
The hell you say!!! :) I wouldn't be caught dead without a mouth call or a half dozen. I rarely carry a box but do carry a glass pot call that my brother gave me as a gift. I use it about 10% of the time or less. I've been practicing with a cane yelper that I believe could become quite useful but I've not mastered it yet.
I use a box, pots and diaphragms. Mouth calls are IMO harder to master but it allows me to get soft without movement to finish with. With most seasons coming to an end, I recommend starting to practice Now. Get a mouth call and practice with it in your vehicle to and from work and by next season you'll be ready to add another tool for Ole 3 Toes.
use every hunt
I have never killed a gobbler when I didn't have a mouth call in my mouth. I carry a couple pot calls but never use them. And a mini jenny box call I only use as a locator call.
Quote from: Greg Massey on May 19, 2021, 10:36:01 AM
Never use them anymore.. if i feel i need mouth call, i will use my push pin call instead. Push pin is way over looked in my opinion in helping kill gobblers.
I'm definitely going to invest in a good push pin this off season. Seems to be the simplest work around if i can't master the mouth call.
Quote from: bbcoach on May 19, 2021, 12:20:59 PM
I use a box, pots and diaphragms. Mouth calls are IMO harder to master but it allows me to get soft without movement to finish with. With most seasons coming to an end, I recommend starting to practice Now. Get a mouth call and practice with it in your vehicle to and from work and by next season you'll be ready to add another tool for Ole 3 Toes.
Ive been practicing in my truck since the end of deer season and it definitely has made me improve but not to where i have confidence in it in the field. I will keep trying though.
Thanks everyone for your replies it definitely makes me feel better than more experienced hunters than I can get it done without them.
All I use
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I think you're going to kill a lot more if you learn how even be somewhat proficient at putting together a few yelps. That's all you need. You can use the pot all you want, but when he's drumming inside of 100 or something like that, you're really killing yourself in some situations when you have to keep your gun up while making those last few sounds. Everyone situation is different. You may have just as much luck snapping a few twigs and scratching some leaves when he's inside of 100. There's no two situations that are alike, but overall, i'd say if you could put together a few yelps you're best bet is to have one in
I used one for over 30 years on elk and turkey but mostly use them to finish off turkeys as I have more luck striking up a turkey with a box call. I couldn't imagine not having one in my mouth at all times.
This year I really took a liking to pot and trumpet calls and when I killed my fist gob this year I was surprised to see i didn't even have a diaphragm in place. Three gobblers latter and I still didn't use a mouth call, I just left them in my pack all season long and didn't really miss them.
On a side note I did pull one out the other day to see if I could gobble with a mouth call and after a few hours was producing some of my best gobble ever. Ill be working on this over the summer and next year may keep one around just for that.
Quote from: HillclimberWV on May 19, 2021, 01:01:21 PM
Quote from: bbcoach on May 19, 2021, 12:20:59 PM
I use a box, pots and diaphragms. Mouth calls are IMO harder to master but it allows me to get soft without movement to finish with. With most seasons coming to an end, I recommend starting to practice Now. Get a mouth call and practice with it in your vehicle to and from work and by next season you'll be ready to add another tool for Ole 3 Toes.
Ive been practicing in my truck since the end of deer season and it definitely has made me improve but not to where i have confidence in it in the field. I will keep trying though.
Thanks everyone for your replies it definitely makes me feel better than more experienced hunters than I can get it done without them.
Sometimes it helps to take a break from practice. Call it a plateau if you will. Your working on muscle memory that's not working properly. Take a break and start again after a week or so maybe longer. I was in the same boat. Put the call down for a maybe a month or so. When I started back up it was like where did that come from. sounded pretty good compared to before.
I use mouth calls 99.9 percent of the time. A pot call might come out on a super slow day with no gobbling as a locator.
Never leave home without one. As far as a good sequence....I was hunting with a friend who couldn't hardly use one, but he kept trying. It was the low of the day about 11:30 and I told him to try it, we weren't hearing anything anyways. He started calling and almost choked on the dang old thing, Bird gobbled 150 yrds away. I couldn't stop laughing. All the money and practice I go through...If I only knew gagging gets responses. The bird got shot BTW. lol
Quote from: jhoward11 on May 19, 2021, 02:41:58 PM
Never leave home without one. As far as a good sequence....I was hunting with a friend who couldn't hardly use one, but he kept trying. It was the low of the day about 11:30 and I told him to try it, we weren't hearing anything anyways. He started calling and almost choked on the dang old thing, Bird gobbled 150 yrds away. I couldn't stop laughing. All the money and practice I go through...If I only knew gagging gets responses. The bird got shot BTW. lol
Priceless! Lol
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I use everything but a scratch box these days. Diaphragms are great in early season but I use them less as the season progresses where there has been pressure.
The worst callers I ever heard, convinced it was some nimrod on a squeaky box call several different times, turned out to be a hen each time.
I use my mouth calls on nearly every bird. I travel for work and basically have one in the car starting in January every year. I've used them for nearly 30yrs so it is 2nd nature. I'd wouldn't give up on them if I were you.
I bought a couple of push pins calls off ebay from ozark ridge for 2 youth hunters a few years ago when they got their 1st bird. They are a nice cheaper push pin that both kids have used to call birds in on their own. Not sure if the guy is still around but maybe an option?
Quote from: btomlin on May 19, 2021, 04:24:20 PM
I use my mouth calls on nearly every bird. I travel for work and basically have one in the car starting in January every year. I've used them for nearly 30yrs so it is 2nd nature. I'd wouldn't give up on them if I were you.
I bought a couple of push pins calls off ebay from ozark ridge for 2 youth hunters a few years ago when they got their 1st bird. They are a nice cheaper push pin that both kids have used to call birds in on their own. Not sure if the guy is still around but maybe an option?
Yeah i'm not going to give up on them, may just take a break for a while. I just recently glued up a couple wingbones from a gobbler i killed. They will give me somethin to play with in the mean time.
Also thank you for the suggestion on the pushpin.
I Hate the Horseshoe calls. I have learned to use my natural voice as a closer.
I can use one pretty good. However... I found myself in the last couple of years only using when there in tight.
Have been practicing with Gooserbat mouth calls. Finally felt confident too use one this season. I never had a chance too use it. Hopping to be up too snuff next year. Keep it in my center console to practice until next season.
I use one 75 % of the time . But this year I had some major dental work done rite before our season , I used my wingbone / tube / and slates ,, I still got a few , but sure missed my mouth yelpers !!!
Have one in my mouth every time I sit down on a turkey and it is my closer call- I want both hands on the gun and ready when he is coming in- one thing I haven't seen on any of the post above and I figured I would is the diaphragm is usually my only call to carry on a rainy day when I don't want to get my good pot calls soaking wet - I don't carry a box but wouldn't carry it in the rain if I did- I know you can put the pot calls in Tupperware and such but I'll stick with the diaphragm... weather don't affect it imo
I've killed most of my turkeys using diaphragm calls over the years. But this year, I struggled to be consistent. I need more practice. I used a pot some to get me by and it worked pretty well for me.
Just completed my 32 spring season. Don't own a mouth call. I envy those that can run em well.
i hunted for 23 years with nothing but whatever hs strut diaphragm call the local shop had
the last few years i've branched out to other types of calls, but always had a call in my mouth as soon as i left the truck
i noticed in the last week that i started only throwing one in when a bird was coming in. got my first birds with a wingbone this year and earlier this week took 2 in one day with a long box. only threw the mouth call in in the last few minutes before shooting
i like ghost cuts.
I use what I strike the bird with.
in my experience the most useful aspect of a diaphragm is being able to get the birds head up just before you shoot
If you want to get good with any type of call, only carry that type of call into the woods, you will get much better. It also makes you use it in a higher stress event, not in your truck, relaxed with nothing to spook.
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If you want to hunt without a mouth call then do it. You'll figure it out
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I don't, but it's only because I'm terrible using one presently. That's one of my "things" I'm going to improve on before next season.
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Quote from: Goodtimekiller on May 19, 2021, 11:11:22 PM
If you want to get good with any type of call, only carry that type of call into the woods, you will get much better. It also makes you use it in a higher stress event, not in your truck, relaxed with nothing to spook.
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Good post!
Never used one to kill a turkey not very good on one but getting better.
Killed my first spring gobbler with a pot call and one with a box. The rest without exception have been called in with diaphragm mouth calls. Big advantage IMO is no movement needed to call. I carry other calls with me hunting(box, scratch box, pot etc) but very seldom use them.
Quote from: Goodtimekiller on May 19, 2021, 11:11:22 PM
If you want to get good with any type of call, only carry that type of call into the woods, you will get much better. It also makes you use it in a higher stress event, not in your truck, relaxed with nothing to spook.
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This might be the truest words ever spoken. Lots of guys sound good in the house or driveway. Put them in a situation where their stress level rises... you'll hear a call make sounds it never should. Present company included.
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Quote from: wvmntnhick on May 20, 2021, 08:20:37 AM
Quote from: Goodtimekiller on May 19, 2021, 11:11:22 PM
If you want to get good with any type of call, only carry that type of call into the woods, you will get much better. It also makes you use it in a higher stress event, not in your truck, relaxed with nothing to spook.
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This might be the truest words ever spoken. Lots of guys sound good in the house or driveway. Put them in a situation where their stress level rises... you'll hear a call make sounds it never should. Present company included.
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This is my biggest problem. I sound good enough in the truck but when I'm out of breath from climbing ridges and my hearts pumping from the gobbler i can't produce the same sounds. This has lead to more than one gobbler packing up and taking off.
I have always struggled to use a diaphragm call. Friend once said I sound like a grey squirrel. Anyway decided a few years ago I was going to get better with the diaphragm call and purchased a program called Conquer the Call, I followed the directions and actually started to see improvement in the call I was practicing, the program does each individual call separately, so you practice one then move to the next sound. For the past couple of years I used a pot and or box almost exclusively so have not used the diaphragm. Decided to pull out a mouth call this year and I need to go back and practice.
the silly looking thing on my gun barrel is a Primos Bombshell. It can be locked to avoid unwanted noise and it can be adjusted for different tones. I also use a K&H T-Bones Turkey Magnet push/pin that magnets to the receiver. Both are very good for sealing the deal.
different bird....same call
I don't use a diaphragm. I use a cluck that I make with my mouth. This has worked for me to seal the deal for countless years.
If you want to seal the deal, scratch in the leaves beside your leg when he's about 75 yards out.
Quote from: bbcoach on May 20, 2021, 02:41:25 PM
If you want to seal the deal, scratch in the leaves beside your leg when he's about 75 yards out.
There is not always leaves to scratch in.
I've never gotten he hang of the mouth calls. That's probably why mine are 12 years old, definitelsound raspy, and are used on a limited basis. Since I'm restricted to hunting small wood lots, I don't run and gun but instead set up at the edge of the woods behind a camo netting screen where I can move my hands, etc. while I use slates, pots, and my favorite nail call.
Quote from: davisd9 on May 20, 2021, 02:53:29 PM
Quote from: bbcoach on May 20, 2021, 02:41:25 PM
If you want to seal the deal, scratch in the leaves beside your leg when he's about 75 yards out.
There is not always leaves to scratch in.
Point taken. But so is getting caught moving while trying to finish with a pot or box because you don't use a diaphragm.
Quote from: davisd9 on May 20, 2021, 02:53:29 PM
Quote from: bbcoach on May 20, 2021, 02:41:25 PM
If you want to seal the deal, scratch in the leaves beside your leg when he's about 75 yards out.
There is not always leaves to scratch in.
A good stiff plastic grocery bag makes a great substitute and doesn't take up any room. You can even add leaves if you wanted too.
I don't hunt one anymore but not for the same reason. I grew up using only a diaphragm and just don't want to lean on that crutch anymore, they're very effective once you figure them out. I will say for me, dropping the mouth call and delving into the rest has dramatically increased my calling confidence, and as others said being put in a situation of closing a bird with any style call you're not comfortable with is much more difficult. That's why I chose to try and find comfort/confidence in several styles of calls rather than just always falling back on the ol' diaphragm or for many their old slate call.
Most any call can be used reliably and effectively on turkeys if the operator knows what he is doing. I have started and finished turkeys with most types out there. The only call I won't carry is a box. Just too bulky and clumsy for me. That and every mothers son seems to delight in beating the rails off of one and sounding like an uncoordinated idiot in the areas I hunt. I know they are effective in the right hands but i am a bit soured on them.
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Past couple years I haven't used them as much as I used to. Mostly use it just to get him to stop and stretch his neck. Majority of the birds I hunt are in the woods, and if a bird is close enough to see me running a box or a slate, I don't need to do anymore calling. He knows right where I am.
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Other than my gun and shells a mouth call would be my next priority! Called in all my birds this year with one to at least finish them, a few with the help of a Crystal Mistress.
I use them on every hunt. At least as confident with them as any other call. Keep working on it!
As others have said, though, I do recommend a push pin call. A Loftis chatterbox is a great sounding push pin that you should be able to get your hands on pretty easily that won't break the bank.
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My first 20 years were without diaphragm calls. I didnt pick them up till the last 5 years or so.
Quote from: guesswho on May 20, 2021, 05:01:18 PM
Quote from: davisd9 on May 20, 2021, 02:53:29 PM
Quote from: bbcoach on May 20, 2021, 02:41:25 PM
If you want to seal the deal, scratch in the leaves beside your leg when he's about 75 yards out.
There is not always leaves to scratch in.
A good stiff plastic grocery bag makes a great substitute and doesn't take up any room. You can even add leaves if you wanted too.
Handing out paid membership type information, thanks!
Have never used one in over 30 years of hunting/killing turkeys.
Some hunters will claim that you need a mouth call once the gobbler gets close, since you can't get away with hand movements with a box or pot call. However, I don't like to call once the gobbler is within 60 yards or so. He already knows exactly where you are, just let him come on in a little closer looking for you...
Also, calling in general is overrated, IMO. Doesn't take a very good turkey caller to consistently kill turkeys if he/she has good woodsmanship skills and knows how to properly set up on turkeys, use terrain to your advantage, etc...
Quote from: PNWturkey on May 21, 2021, 08:38:46 PM
Also, calling in general is overrated, IMO. Doesn't take a very good turkey caller to consistently kill turkeys if he/she has good woodsmanship skills and knows how to properly set up on turkeys, use terrain to your advantage, etc...
Tell that to the guy sitting in a private field with his funky chicken and a hen decoy after I turned I tom back into public for my dad to shoot this spring. Calling isn't everything but it sure helps. Especially if your good at it and know what to say.
Quote from: Paulmyr on May 21, 2021, 10:01:03 PM
Quote from: PNWturkey on May 21, 2021, 08:38:46 PM
Also, calling in general is overrated, IMO. Doesn't take a very good turkey caller to consistently kill turkeys if he/she has good woodsmanship skills and knows how to properly set up on turkeys, use terrain to your advantage, etc...
Tell that to the guy sitting in a private field with his funky chicken and a hen decoy after I turned I tom back into public for my dad to shoot this spring. Calling isn't everything but it sure helps. Especially if your good at it and know what to say.
I agree with your statement, and it sounds like you are a good caller. But as you would likely agree with, newcomers to turkey hunting often obsess over their calling (witness the huge pack of different calls) while ignoring other very important aspects of turkey hunting, IMO. So, per the OP's original question on diaphragm calls, I definitely don't feel like one has to master the diaphragm to consistently kill turkeys...
At one point many years ago here in Pennsylvania(1909 to 1936) ANY turkey call was illegal! My great great Uncle Jet who loved to hunt turkeys used his pipe he smoked tobacco in as a turkey call much like you would use a wing bone call. He killed turkeys too with this technique. I remember him showing me this when I was a young teenager. ;D
Quote from: WildTigerTrout on May 22, 2021, 10:31:13 AM
At one point many years ago here in Pennsylvania(1909 to 1936) ANY turkey call was illegal! My great great Uncle Jet who loved to hunt turkeys used his pipe he smoked tobacco in as a turkey call much like you would use a wing bone call. He killed turkeys too with this technique. I remember him showing me this when I was a young teenager. ;D
.
That's pretty cool ,, my grandpa used a short cane reed . He killed piles of em too .
Quote from: PNWturkey on May 22, 2021, 09:43:44 AM
Quote from: Paulmyr on May 21, 2021, 10:01:03 PM
Quote from: PNWturkey on May 21, 2021, 08:38:46 PM
Also, calling in general is overrated, IMO. Doesn't take a very good turkey caller to consistently kill turkeys if he/she has good woodsmanship skills and knows how to properly set up on turkeys, use terrain to your advantage, etc...
Tell that to the guy sitting in a private field with his funky chicken and a hen decoy after I turned I tom back into public for my dad to shoot this spring. Calling isn't everything but it sure helps. Especially if your good at it and know what to say.
I agree with your statement, and it sounds like you are a good caller. But as you would likely agree with, newcomers to turkey hunting often obsess over their calling (witness the huge pack of different calls) while ignoring other very important aspects of turkey hunting, IMO. So, per the OP's original question on diaphragm calls, I definitely don't feel like one has to master the diaphragm to consistently kill turkeys...
Consistently is the operative word in that statement. It could mean one per season or even less.
Turkeys that are gobbling and letting you know where there at, woodsmanship can play a big role in killing them turkeys especially for the "Pearl Harbor" type hunters. Not my game.
Where good calling really shines is striking a gobbler when the woods are quiet, getting him fired up, and bringing him in. Knowing what to say to turkeys, how to say it, and when to say it is HUGE if your going to really consistently kill gobblers.
I would put listening and paying attention to what's going on when turkeys are gobbling as number 1. It could be considered woodsmanship depending on your definition. I think most take woodsmanship as knowing how to sneak around, read sign, reading terrain, and possibly how to pattern turkeys.
Just this mourning I had a number of gobblers in front of me on private land. Also a number of hens around as well. Most of the hens were not paying attention to the toms Gobbling thier asses off. When I 1st showed up my guess was 5 toms. Most of the hens were paying attention to the new girl/ me. There was a lot of commotion. Hens squawking, toms gobbling, just to much going on to make a play. A couple toms faded off and you could here them as they went but the hens payed close attention to me. They didn't show themselves but they were making a fuss none the less. Were they breeding or waiting to be bred? My guess not likely. Late in the season as it is my guess this was rendezvous point and most hens were going off to lay eggs soon. I toned down my calling to almost non existent an waited. 2 gobblers chased hens on thier way off to lay eggs. One to the south one to the northwest but returned soon after. One made his way within 100yds of where I originally called from. He showed interest so I called to him. He responded and then went silent. I waited. Waited. Waited. Nothing. I called and the only response was the gobbler in the small private field. When I did call it told me a few hens were still left so I sat and listened.
Cutting in the small field and all 3 toms going nuts. Cutting continues as she leaves out the northwest. She's just been bred and the big boy is chasing her gobbling as he goes. Northwest is good because that brings him on to public. I move closer but not to close.
The hen activity quiets so I call. Responses from all 3. I wait. Movement to my left. It's coming closer. It's a hen. She's nonchalantly looking for me but not too hard. She pays no attention to the gobbling around her. She moves across in front of me maybe 80 yds. A tom gobbles I respond. She's uninterested. She moves off and fades away, off to lay eggs. I hear what I presume to be 3 toms back in front of me on private. I get up and sneak to the exit point to the northwest and set up. It's been quiet for a while now no gobbling, no hens, no calling from me.
I hear a tom gobbling out on private again. He's a ways off. He's getting closer. But still 300yds plus away. He knows there's still one hen left. He's been hearing her all mourning. I finally break the silence and call to him.
Dang the Boss didn't return yet and fires off 150yds behind me and to the right. I scootch as much as I dare to my left. Right handed shooter. He fires again closer. And again. He's right behind me clucking. I cluck back to put him at ease. He fires off still clucking. He's directly behind me clucking and gobbleing. I cluck back to put him at ease again. He's moving to my left. Good. I'm looking through my left ear hole moving my gun as slow as I possibly can. I see him. He's 30yds out still clucking. I don't dare cluck now as I'm exposed. Slowly moving my gun. Cluck, cluck cluck gobble. Cluck cluck cluck gobble. My guns almost there. I can't make it. He's still moving to my left but the clucking starts to get annoyed pipping. He moves off pipping as he goes. The woods go silent. I call a few times to no avail.
Them toms new I was there. The subs played but wouldn't show with the boss around. Boss knew I was there and as soon as he got done taking care of business he let me know.
To your woodsmanship point. If I would have payed attention to the crows, they were letting me know he was back there. He wasn't gobbling but they sure we're trying.
Everything came into play this mourn. Good calling, when and when not to say anything. Woodsmanship, I had a good idea where these birds were heading this mourn got back into the truck and circled around in front of them about a mile. I've only been in this area one other time and nothing was going. We both showed up at about he same time. Mind you it took a while for my glasses to quit fogging.
Listening, listening, listening, and lots of patience. To your point of newbies my guess is they don't have the patience to sit in this scenario for 4 hours. They would have been calling to much, moving set ups to much, and and just plain not listening to what's going on and forcing the issue most likely spooking birds and shutting the whole thing down.
How does this pertain to using a diaphram call. There were a number of times when I had birds very close. Mostly hens. If I wasn't able to call without movement most likely I would have been busted. I couldn't see them but I guarantee they could see where I was.
I could get into the 3 toms I fired up at noon after moving to a new location today and got them to 35 yds within 10 mins when it was 87 degrees when the woods were deafly quiet and I was pouring sweat just thinking about moving. That was all about the calling. It has a sour ending due to gun issues so I'm just going to chew on that one for a while. Pretty sure a crow call and woodsmanship wouldn't have done it.
A little cocky? Maybe but as I've stated in previous posts be confident in whatever you are doing especially calling even if it's wrong. If your not it won't sound right to you or the turkeys!
Quote from: Paulmyr on May 22, 2021, 11:29:52 PM
Quote from: PNWturkey on May 22, 2021, 09:43:44 AM
Quote from: Paulmyr on May 21, 2021, 10:01:03 PM
Quote from: PNWturkey on May 21, 2021, 08:38:46 PM
Also, calling in general is overrated, IMO. Doesn't take a very good turkey caller to consistently kill turkeys if he/she has good woodsmanship skills and knows how to properly set up on turkeys, use terrain to your advantage, etc...
Tell that to the guy sitting in a private field with his funky chicken and a hen decoy after I turned I tom back into public for my dad to shoot this spring. Calling isn't everything but it sure helps. Especially if your good at it and know what to say.
I agree with your statement, and it sounds like you are a good caller. But as you would likely agree with, newcomers to turkey hunting often obsess over their calling (witness the huge pack of different calls) while ignoring other very important aspects of turkey hunting, IMO. So, per the OP's original question on diaphragm calls, I definitely don't feel like one has to master the diaphragm to consistently kill turkeys...
Consistently is the operative word in that statement. It could mean one per season or even less.
Turkeys that are gobbling and letting you know where there at, woodsmanship can play a big role in killing them turkeys especially for the "Pearl Harbor" type hunters. Not my game.
Where good calling really shines is striking a gobbler when the woods are quiet, getting him fired up, and bringing him in. Knowing what to say to turkeys, how to say it, and when to say it is HUGE if your going to really consistently kill gobblers.
I would put listening and paying attention to what's going on when turkeys are gobbling as number 1. It could be considered woodsmanship depending on your definition. I think most take woodsmanship as knowing how to sneak around, read sign, reading terrain, and possibly how to pattern turkeys.
Just this mourning I had a number of gobblers in front of me on private land. Also a number of hens around as well. Most of the hens were not paying attention to the toms Gobbling thier asses off. When I 1st showed up my guess was 5 toms. Most of the hens were paying attention to the new girl/ me. There was a lot of commotion. Hens squawking, toms gobbling, just to much going on to make a play. A couple toms faded off and you could here them as they went but the hens payed close attention to me. They didn't show themselves but they were making a fuss none the less. Were they breeding or waiting to be bred? My guess not likely. Late in the season as it is my guess this was rendezvous point and most hens were going off to lay eggs soon. I toned down my calling to almost non existent an waited. 2 gobblers chased hens on thier way off to lay eggs. One to the south one to the northwest but returned soon after. One made his way within 100yds of where I originally called from. He showed interest so I called to him. He responded and then went silent. I waited. Waited. Waited. Nothing. I called and the only response was the gobbler in the small private field. When I did call it told me a few hens were still left so I sat and listened.
Cutting in the small field and all 3 toms going nuts. Cutting continues as she leaves out the northwest. She's just been bred and the big boy is chasing her gobbling as he goes. Northwest is good because that brings him on to public. I move closer but not to close.
The hen activity quiets so I call. Responses from all 3. I wait. Movement to my left. It's coming closer. It's a hen. She's nonchalantly looking for me but not too hard. She pays no attention to the gobbling around her. She moves across in front of me maybe 80 yds. A tom gobbles I respond. She's uninterested. She moves off and fades away, off to lay eggs. I hear what I presume to be 3 toms back in front of me on private. I get up and sneak to the exit point to the northwest and set up. It's been quiet for a while now no gobbling, no hens, no calling from me.
I hear a tom gobbling out on private again. He's a ways off. He's getting closer. But still 300yds plus away. He knows there's still one hen left. He's been hearing her all mourning. I finally break the silence and call to him.
Dang the Boss didn't return yet and fires off 150yds behind me and to the right. I scootch as much as I dare to my left. Right handed shooter. He fires again closer. And again. He's right behind me clucking. I cluck back to put him at ease. He fires off still clucking. He's directly behind me clucking and gobbleing. I cluck back to put him at ease again. He's moving to my left. Good. I'm looking through my left ear hole moving my gun as slow as I possibly can. I see him. He's 30yds out still clucking. I don't dare cluck now as I'm exposed. Slowly moving my gun. Cluck, cluck cluck gobble. Cluck cluck cluck gobble. My guns almost there. I can't make it. He's still moving to my left but the clucking starts to get annoyed pipping. He moves off pipping as he goes. The woods go silent. I call a few times to no avail.
Them toms new I was there. The subs played but wouldn't show with the boss around. Boss knew I was there and as soon as he got done taking care of business he let me know.
To your woodsmanship point. If I would have payed attention to the crows, they were letting me know he was back there. He wasn't gobbling but they sure we're trying.
Everything came into play this mourn. Good calling, when and when not to say anything. Woodsmanship, I had a good idea where these birds were heading this mourn got back into the truck and circled around in front of them about a mile. I've only been in this area one other time and nothing was going. We both showed up at about he same time. Mind you it took a while for my glasses to quit fogging.
Listening, listening, listening, and lots of patience. To your point of newbies my guess is they don't have the patience to sit in this scenario for 4 hours. They would have been calling to much, moving set ups to much, and and just plain not listening to what's going on and forcing the issue most likely spooking birds and shutting the whole thing down.
How does this pertain to using a diaphram call. There were a number of times when I had birds very close. Mostly hens. If I wasn't able to call without movement most likely I would have been busted. I couldn't see them but I guarantee they could see where I was.
I could get into the 3 toms I fired up at noon after moving to a new location today and got them to 35 yds within 10 mins when it was 87 degrees when the woods were deafly quiet and I was pouring sweat just thinking about moving. That was all about the calling. It has a sour ending due to gun issues so I'm just going to chew on that one for a while. Pretty sure a crow call and woodsmanship wouldn't have done it.
A little cocky? Maybe but as I've stated in previous posts be confident in whatever you are doing especially calling even if it's wrong. If your not it won't sound right to you or the turkeys!
Enjoyed the read.
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Quote from: WildTigerTrout on May 22, 2021, 10:31:13 AM
At one point many years ago here in Pennsylvania(1909 to 1936) ANY turkey call was illegal! My great great Uncle Jet who loved to hunt turkeys used his pipe he smoked tobacco in as a turkey call much like you would use a wing bone call. He killed turkeys too with this technique. I remember him showing me this when I was a young teenager. ;D
There's a few callmakers still making pipe style calls called chibouks. Anthony Ellis makes a fine one. Great one handed suction call.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210523/983e63427a94db6bcfbb101677665001.jpg)
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Quote from: warrent423 on May 23, 2021, 10:37:51 AM
The best "sit down against a tree and make a Gobbler come look for you" killers I ever met, never owned a mouth yelper ;) They also never used the excuse that those Gobblers were "subs" and thus, that was the reason they did not approach. I hear that one a lot from the "cocky" competition caller mentality crowd
From reading your other posts on old gobbler I wouldn't expect anything less from you.
I am glad I am not one of the best. I always have a diaphragm call in my mouth. However what that particular turkey is responding to is what that turkey gets. It pays to be versatile in my opinion. However I will take a fellow who is extremely good with one call over a fellow that is so so with multiple calls. And I don't care what type of call it is. For those that don't use visual aids the call is extremely important. I don't carry many calls compared to most but I do have enough variety to generally find something that works. 5-10 diaphragm calls don't take up much space and my results keep me happy.If a pot or box is your specialty then roll with it. Same as a wingbone or trumpet. Still doesn't hurt to be practiced up on others. You can definitely be effective without the mouth yelpers though.
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Quote from: warrent423 on May 23, 2021, 11:10:40 AM
Quote from: Paulmyr on May 23, 2021, 10:44:45 AM
Quote from: warrent423 on May 23, 2021, 10:37:51 AM
The best "sit down against a tree and make a Gobbler come look for you" killers I ever met, never owned a mouth yelper ;) They also never used the excuse that those Gobblers were "subs" and thus, that was the reason they did not approach. I hear that one a lot from the "cocky" competition caller mentality crowd
From reading your other posts on old gobbler I wouldn't expect anything less from you.
Only pointing out the obvious to those who need a little "deflating" from time to time ;)
And the peanut gallery chimes in again!
I agree with you 100% Happy
Only when I forget them, which has been quite often Lately. I mainly intend to use them to cackle/cut to get them to pop their heads up to shoot them but I am trying to get better with them.
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Quote from: Paulmyr on May 22, 2021, 11:29:52 PM
I move closer but not to close.
Paulmyr - enjoyed the read. Your quote above is another good example of woodsmanship skills that many newbies lack...
It makes me think of a fun challenge - on
public land take a great diaphragm caller pitted against a great woosdman (who is a mediocre caller). No decoys. The great caller can't move, has to sit against the same tree all day. The woodsman can move as he sees fit to set up/adjust on turkeys.
Who consistently kills more turkeys?
Why is the great caller restricted to one tree? Now remove the tree restriction from the great caller. Would the outcome still be the same?
Quote from: guesswho on May 23, 2021, 06:19:16 PM
Why is the great caller restricted to one tree? Now remove the tree restriction from the great caller. Would the outcome still be the same?
Or what if that great caller is also a great tree picker? I don't know maybe the fella's just lucky.
Quote from: guesswho on May 23, 2021, 06:19:16 PM
Why is the great caller restricted to one tree? Now remove the tree restriction from the great caller. Would the outcome still be the same?
If the great caller knows how to "move close but not too close", as in Paulmyr's story, then he arguably is also a pretty good woodsman with regards to turkey hunting.
Anyway, why would a great caller need to move in the woods, shouldn't the turkeys just come charging in to his call? ;D
Quote from: PNWturkey on May 23, 2021, 07:48:15 PM
Quote from: guesswho on May 23, 2021, 06:19:16 PM
Why is the great caller restricted to one tree? Now remove the tree restriction from the great caller. Would the outcome still be the same?
If the great caller knows how to "move close but not too close", as in Paulmyr's story, then he arguably is also a pretty good woodsman with regards to turkey hunting.
Anyway, why would a great caller need to move in the woods, shouldn't the turkeys just come charging in to his call? ;D
Based on that criteria, I don't think a great caller has been born yet :D
It took my a good amount of time to become proficient with a mouth call and Use them often but for the subtle sounds I go with a pot call.I think a box call will give the most consistent and realistic clucks but I don't enjoy carrying them but have been forcing my self lately.
I kill 99% of my birds only using a mouth call
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I've been natural calling since I was 10. Used to carry a box of a few diaphragms and a box call to help with locating. To many lost calls along with countless other lost things. Now I carry a gun and a bottle of water. I've called in 100s of birds and have been told by pretty much anyone I hunt with it's one of the most realistic sounds they have heard.
I would recommend others trying it isn't hard. That being said I will say I have hunted with a buddy where a bird would gobble to his raspy diaphragm call but not my voice.
I think like anything they have different tastes. I could carry 100 calls to get one to gobble but I'll just move on and find the next ones.
Quote from: jaredmccullough on May 25, 2021, 06:43:21 PM
I've been natural calling since I was 10.
I've been experimenting with natural calling (mostly yelps and purrs) over the last couple of decades, after being turned on to it by an old-time turkey hunter acquaintance. I have had some great responses from gobblers! (and of course some not-so-great responses)
Do you use an exhale or inhale when you make your natural calls? I seem to get a better response with my exhale calls, but I can get louder and raspier with an inhale call...
I'd love to hear a soundfile of the voice calling. I need some inspiration.
Quote from: guesswho on May 25, 2021, 08:15:49 PM
I'd love to hear a soundfile of the voice calling. I need some inspiration.
I don't know about the inspiration part ;D but I uploaded a couple of natural voice clips in the Turkey Call portion of the forum:
http://oldgobbler.com/Forum/index.php/topic,104639.0.html
Thanks, now I know what I'll be doing all summer. My Wife appreciates that inspiration ;D
Quote from: guesswho on May 26, 2021, 01:53:15 PM
Thanks, now I know what I'll be doing all summer. My Wife appreciates that inspiration ;D
Well, at least she might appreciate that for this one you don't have to buy any new turkey calls ;D (I'm speaking from personal experience...)