What's your prediction with this Seasons Gobbling activity? As speaking with actual amount of gobbling one will expierence during the actual time you can hunt during the Season only?
I know I have not been hunting turkeys as long as some, but in my 12 years or so of hunting them, one trend I have noticed is less gobbling, as compared to when I first started. And these were mainly normal Springs that started as usual, which has me beliving this could go down as one of the worst gobbling Seasons yet, with the early warm weather? I believe drops in gobbling has a lot to do with our hen popultion over the years that has just gotten out of hand, more hens less need to gobble.
Now factor in the warmer than usual weather, might even mean less gobbling during the Season? I realize one can still kill silent gobblers, but this is not the point of this thread. As we all love to hear them gobble, I'm one that always said if turkeys never gobbled, I'd probably not hunt them? Don't get me wrong I still go out on them gobbless days, but always in hope of hearing one? Where other diehards could care less and would hunt them even if the never gobbled once during the Spring?
So what are your predictions for this Season, gobbling activity during the Season only, based on past expierences coupled with this warm Season? I realize the amount of daylight plays into this also, but have to believe warm weather can and will also? Hope I'm wrong, but I believe with past trends of less gobbing to me, along with this warm weather, the gobbling activity could go down as one of the worst Seasons yet? I realize many will kill some the first day or so and claim the best gobbling they have heard? But if one was to hunt the whole Season from start to finish, the amount of gobbling heard during the Season collectively, might be one of the worst yet in my opinions? Any predictions?
I don't know.......... I've been turkey hunting about as long as you and I too have noticed less gobbling. But some of that is due to overall hunting pressure. Some is public land, but most is private and I've heard less on both.
I hope to hear a bunch and I suspect some days will be better than others. I won't let it get me down though.
I've got a spot where there are alot of hens. The landowner even invited me up in the fall to shoot a hen because there are so many. I didn't go, mostly because I focus on bow hunting deer at that time and its an hour drive from home. But I'm there just about every Saturday during the spring season. Some days.........the place is rocking with gobblers sounding off every where. On others......... I'm lucky if I hear a couple.
When that happens.......I hunt their travel routes. Call sparingly and sit still. It also helps when the landowner tells you what time he's been seeing that big long beard come out into the field. ;) ;) That :gobble: went home with me in the truck!!!
I know I have never heard much goblling on days that hit 80 Degrees in May and at the rate its going now we'll be in the 90's..
Last year I heard the most gobbling in PA as I had in almost 10 years but that was mainly due to population, last 8 years or so theres been almost nothing around my uncles property in Susquehanna County but when I was a kid the hills were covered with them. last year there was a good few around and they gobbled well the first couple days I was there.
I think PA and NY need to move their season up about 2 weeks, not just to hear more gobbles and make it more inline with breeding but I dont like bumping hens off nests each year in mid to late May and think we should be out of the woods before then.
i personally think that there is less gobbling it might sound crazy but i think its because there is more hens just seems like the gobblers have lots of hens no need to run around gobbling that and our season is a tad to late
Quote from: MrB0000M on March 21, 2012, 07:37:06 PM
i personally think that there is less gobbling it might sound crazy but i think its because there is more hens just seems like the gobblers have lots of hens no need to run around gobbling that and our season is a tad to late
Not crazy at all, I also stated that as one factor for decreasing gobbling over the years. They just don't have to gobble, if always in company of hens, drumming will do. And think about this? how many Turkey hunters do you know in PA, hunt Hens as hard as they hunt Toms? I'm guilty myself, as most hunters here do, they take their fare share of Toms in the Spring, and many might no even Fall hunt for hens? Which leaves the Hen population growing each year, but keeping the Tom population down.
Another factor as already stated too, is the increasing pressure over the years. Over the years the sport has become very popular, spiked by Proffesional videos and gadgets nowadays . Now everyone wants to be a proffessional, call and video, and a lot of this happens nowadays even before the Season starts, adding premature pressure in many areas before the Season opens?
Couple those two issues with a early warm Spring will not help the issue, as someone statted, birds in general just seem to gobble less as the days get hotter anyways.
we should be huntin now!!!!!!!!!!!! we are way way to late
we keep on gettin to warm to quick
they need to change this b.s.
PRESSURE is a BIG factor where I hunt. I hunt public land 99% of the time and around here it's like the first day of Rifle season for deer the first day of turkey season. The past 2 years we had early springs and that brought out alot of the hunters in full swing the first two weeks and it's going to happen again this year. Only difference is it's greening up here alot earlier this year than years past. I can't buy a gobble in the evenings anymore because of all the traffic on the mountain roads. I can't hardly buy a gobble during the morning hours lately either. Alot of people are out of work around here thus putting more hunters/scouters in the woods. Another thing that bothers me is the lack of food last fall. Finding a food source is tough right now. Of course with things growing early this year will help, I hope. A friend of mine went scouting last week the same day I did..we were about 25 miles apart. He was scouting above farm fields where I was scouting back in the mountains. He heard 9 gobblers, I heard none. Again I think food source. It's early yet, time will tell.
I hear you, same here, as all I hunt is Public ground also, weather I'm hunting PA or Ohio. It can be very frustrating at times on Public grounds, as you get a wide variety of hunters. At the most 50% of the hunters here are true Turkey hunters and are considerate of others, where the other 50% make for some tough hunting. They'll crowd right in on you even if you got a bird working first, they stalk around without calling and shoot into your set if you have a bird in range, seen and experienced it all. Just something we have to put up with here on Public land, but 50% of it is just down right ignorance, or those who truly know nothing about Turkey hunting, and go just because the general licence comes with a Spring Turkey tag? Good Luck!
First off, gobbling is triggered by the length of daylight...it's called phototropisms. Turkeys gobble in PA all the time but that doesn't mean they are breeding. I have at least a dozen longbeards who roost on the hill behind my house and their ancestors have done so also for the last 35 years..they gobble from around groundhogs day in early February until well into June..weather does have some affect and effects the amount and rates of gobbling .. days like today they are going nuts, on days in March when the weather sucks with 2 feet of snow and howling winds you don't hear a sound. THE HENS will determine when breeding occurs and they only need to breed once and can keep sperm alive for 56 days in their ovidepositor and don't need to breed any more..so they can breed in March but don't implant the sperm until lare April or early May...in the southern laurels they almost always are on the nest around May 6-9.. SO don't let the heat, warmth, sunshine scare you... everything is just as it always was and will be.. The season will be just fine, same thing in OHIO if the latitudes are the same.
I know that deer and elk breed at the same time every year regardless of weather because of photoperiod. The amount of daylight on Nov 15 is the same every year. When the weather is warm I think the bulk of the breeding activity is at night when noone is around to see or hear it. Now with birds I am not 100% sure. They can"t lay eggs just because it is unusually warm then chance some bad weather. March and early April can get nasty here in PA.
Gobbling has decreased so much in the areas I hunt that I welcome any kind of change. I used to roost 5 to 10 birds a night, I haven't heard a bird gobble from a evening roost in 3yrs. don't know whats going on?
Quote from: Frankinthelaurels on March 22, 2012, 02:17:29 PM
First off, gobbling is triggered by the length of daylight...it's called phototropisms. Turkeys gobble in PA all the time but that doesn't mean they are breeding. I have at least a dozen longbeards who roost on the hill behind my house and their ancestors have done so also for the last 35 years..they gobble from around groundhogs day in early February until well into June..weather does have some affect and effects the amount and rates of gobbling .. days like today they are going nuts, on days in March when the weather sucks with 2 feet of snow and howling winds you don't hear a sound. THE HENS will determine when breeding occurs and they only need to breed once and can keep sperm alive for 56 days in their ovidepositor and don't need to breed any more..so they can breed in March but don't implant the sperm until lare April or early May...in the southern laurels they almost always are on the nest around May 6-9.. SO don't let the heat, warmth, sunshine scare you... everything is just as it always was and will be.. The season will be just fine, same thing in OHIO if the latitudes are the same.
I hear what you are saying, but still have to believe if this extremely warm weather trend continues, it will advance the breeding somewhat? Which in turn might mean less gobbling than normal for the actual time you can hunt during the Season? As I stated, at least to me gobbling seems to have decreased over the years during the actual Season? Which makes me believe they run a bit early to begin with for the timing of our Season? Not talking preseason, I'm just referring to gobbling during the actual time one can hunt. And if the warm weather could even advance the Season as little as a week, I feel there will be less gobbling heard during this Season? Again, just my opinion, that the gobbling heard during Season only, collectively for the entire Season, could be the worst to come, because they naturally seem to get worse each year, regardless the weather.
I think our season is to late. Last year a buddy of mine seen a gobbler breeding a hen in mid march. So I think we're definitely missing out on alot. I read that our season is late because we have so many hunters and we'd kill to many if our season was earlier.
The last few years have been the best for gobbling that I have ever hunted. I think it has more to do with less hunting pressure in my area. They seem to shut up when people are calling from their 4 wheelers and wearing orange all day. If the weather does effect the turkeys gobbling we just need to adapt. I am more discouraged that I will be sweating and won't be able to see anything with the green up.
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if it's in the 80's and 90's in May the turkeys will be sluggish and the bugs wont... thats my only REAl concern
CUTT...gobbling during the season can be affecting and effected by a lot of things.. HUNTING PRESSURE is number 1 in my opinion, day after day chasing of the same couple of birds can stop gobbling completely...I've seen this many times over the last almost 50 seasons of chasing them. I also think but I have scientific evidence to prove it but ambushing...killing without calling stops gobbling in an area also...if a turkey gobbles while he is walking around and you have enough hunters after him the chances are he will die without being called to or by someone who sneaks in while someone else is calling, I call this ambushing, the survivors or birds that have been around the dead bird alled to or not just seem to shut up after that..they still walk around but Zip the lip...also birds that are with a gobbler that has been killed have a tendency to shut up for a few days after their buddy checks out. I also think the gobblers that talk a lot eventually get killed and their genetics may not get passed on, silent gobblers stand a better chance of living longer therefore spreading their genes. I've hunted in 17 different states and overall find gobblers north of the mason-dixon line gobble a lot more than those in the south, if you think it's quiet here take a trip south and you'll be shocked at the amount of gobbling you here, especially on open or public grounds. I've found that northern turkey gobble a lots more, lots! :gobble:
Quote from: archery1 on March 21, 2012, 09:12:09 PM
we should be huntin now!!!!!!!!!!!! we are way way to late
we keep on gettin to warm to quick
they need to change this b.s.
I am a NY hunter and our season dont begin til May 1st. I feel your pain.
Correct me if I am wrong but gobbling is an instinct inherent in their breeding process. If they do not gobble their chances to breed go down because perhaps the hen can't find birds that are not gobbling. One I area I hunt gets a lot of pressure because it is public land but there are birds there out the gazoo and they gobble like mad. I think the explosion in turkey numbers has more to do with the gobbling and not so much pressure. A couple of tree gobbles and then here comes the hens. These are my opinions and may be completely wrong.
Quote from: dpittman on March 23, 2012, 05:03:31 PM
Correct me if I am wrong but gobbling is an instinct inherent in their breeding process. If they do not gobble their chances to breed go down because perhaps the hen can't find birds that are not gobbling. One I area I hunt gets a lot of pressure because it is public land but there are birds there out the gazoo and they gobble like mad. I think the explosion in turkey numbers has more to do with the gobbling and not so much pressure. A couple of tree gobbles and then here comes the hens. These are my opinions and may be completely wrong.
True in a sense, but gobbling just in general without other influences like pressure, etc. can vary, with the amount of available hens, breeding phase, and age structure of Toms. If hens are nearby Toms don't even have to gobble to attract them, as spitting and drumming is enough. Although it can't be heard that well by human ear, turkey's can hear it much farther. Times where birds will gobble a lot, are times they are not in close proximity of hens, as a better way of letting them know his where abouts, when drumming might not be heard? As you know with hunting, any lone gobbler or gobblers without hens around will typically gobble more. As where toms roosted right with hens might gobble a bit, or not at all, and do all drumming? So they really don't have to gobble, just to breed.
Another influence can be a Mature Tom in the area that keeps other Toms tight lipped in fear of getting whipped by him? Kill this mature Tom, and an area that did not have much gobbling can really light up now that the Bullie is gone.
Quote from: Frankinthelaurels on March 23, 2012, 10:40:14 AM
CUTT...gobbling during the season can be affecting and effected by a lot of things.. HUNTING PRESSURE is number 1 in my opinion, day after day chasing of the same couple of birds can stop gobbling completely...I've seen this many times over the last almost 50 seasons of chasing them. I also think but I have scientific evidence to prove it but ambushing...killing without calling stops gobbling in an area also...if a turkey gobbles while he is walking around and you have enough hunters after him the chances are he will die without being called to or by someone who sneaks in while someone else is calling, I call this ambushing, the survivors or birds that have been around the dead bird alled to or not just seem to shut up after that..they still walk around but Zip the lip...also birds that are with a gobbler that has been killed have a tendency to shut up for a few days after their buddy checks out. I also think the gobblers that talk a lot eventually get killed and their genetics may not get passed on, silent gobblers stand a better chance of living longer therefore spreading their genes. I've hunted in 17 different states and overall find gobblers north of the mason-dixon line gobble a lot more than those in the south, if you think it's quiet here take a trip south and you'll be shocked at the amount of gobbling you here, especially on open or public grounds. I've found that northern turkey gobble a lots more, lots! :gobble:
Some good points there, I've also read where many say and as you stated "We are shooting the Gobble out of them" Genetically like you stated, we are killing all the loud mouths, leaving birds that typically do not gobble as much, to only pass this trait on? Who knows? 100 years from now, they might not even gobble anymore? But we won't have to worry about that? ;D
And I can only speak for this area in PA and west some in Ohio, as the gobbling each year seems to diminish somewhat? As for how much they gobble here as compared to the South, I wouldn't know? I wonder if guys in the South who have hunted for many years, feel the amount of gobbling heard each Season has diminished from when they first started also?
I have a good Friend who has hunted Turkeys in this area approx. twice as long as I have, and he says the same thing. Not that the amount of decreased gobbling is that noticeable from year to year. But collectively from his start to nowadays, he see's a big difference and a change throughout his turkey hunting time. Like he said there was a time he could go in the woods years ago, numerous times during the Season and hear 4 -5 gobblers, and wouldn't know which one to go after? And now he says he very seldom runs into this situation nowadays, and hears much less also.
There's a lot we have to keep in mind as far as turkey seasons go. Turkeys are a totally difft. creature than deer. We don't hunt to control their numbers. Unlike deer, they experience high enough natural mortality and predation that hunting is not needed as a management tool. In contrast, our turkey seasons are designed similar to other small game seasons, wherein seasons and bag limits are designed to give hunters maximum opportunity to enjoy the resource WITHOUT impacting populations. I read a comment in an earlier post about needing higher hen harvest in the fall to balance sex ratios, but that just isn't the case. Let's think about this for a minute or two. Lets say you hunt a 500 acre piece of property. It has approx 75 birds on it. you and your three buddies who hunt it with you decide to gun for some hens in the fall because of the reasons you mentioned, and all four of you succeed. Congrats. Now the next spring, instead of having 40 hens to contend with, you have 36. Did that really benefit you, help even your odds with working a gobbler? Not really. But let's look at what did happen as a result. There are four fewer adult hens that will be nesting this spring. Each one could potentially hatch and recruit a dozen poults to the fall if conditions are good. Nature skewers turkey sex ratios slightly toward males due to higher natural mortality of males, so lets assume each hen would have recruited seven gobblers and five hens. You and your buddies just eliminated 28 potential gobblers from your local flock through the elimination of four hens that basically accomplished nothing towards improving odds of finding a gobbler without hens to contend with. No real good was possibly accomplished other than a prime fall turkey dinner, of course :). Natural mortality rates are already very high and nesting hens have to overcome enormous odds including weather and predation in order to recruit their young each year. I simply see no need to make it more difficult by targeting hens. The plus side of having tons of hens is it means tons of nests, tons of poults, and tons of gobblers being recruited every year. The properties I hunt the most havent' seen what I would refer to as a poor hatch in over four years. Each year there seems to be TONS of jakes. We let them walk for the most part and it means every year after there are tons of two yr olds. We gladly kill a few of them of course, and a few older birds when we get lucky, the reason is a high turkey population...lots of hens. Hens are the breeding machines that keep your turkey pop on the rise. Why kill the machine? If you have that many hens, be grateful. They are hatching you plenty of new gobblers every year. What is most likely is that there are a ton of silent birds, subdominant toms that you rarely see or hear while the bosses are around, but trust me they are there. Approx 1.5 gobblers per hen is more or less the birth ratio, like I said, to offset higher natural mortality, but assume at the start of the season in spring that your ratio is probably very close to 1:1. Hunter harvest aside, usually doesn't even come close to what is being lost to predation. Let me check some numbers, but I believe recent PA spring harvests are hovering around 45-50, 000. This from a population over a half million birds. That's not even a dent, and turkey numbers are still rising and sharply in some areas. Trust me, we're not killing all the toms and allowing hen numbers to get that far out of whack.. It just seems that way when the bosses are doing most of the breeding and the losers are playing shy and silent. If this warm, early spring trends toward dry, we'll be in for another bumper hatch again, too! :) My advice, for what it's worth: Don't shoot the hens in the fall, atleast for that reason. It's self defeating.
We all have to remember that it is not all about killing a gobbler... Take the season for what it is going to be, because there is nothing we can do about it. When it rolls around just get out and enjoy..
Quote from: Fullfan on March 24, 2012, 08:07:26 AM
We all have to remember that it is not all about killing a gobbler... Take the season for what it is going to be, because there is nothing we can do about it. When it rolls around just get out and enjoy..
thats a good point.sure i wish our season would start about two weeks ealier, doesn`t help any seeing all those southern
boys with their pictures and stories of birds hitting the dirt.and we still have a month and half to go,guess that why i like to hit out west
or the mid west to get a earleir start,and come home and have the whole month of may to hunt.but i believe we are going to have to break
the spring green camo out pretty early this year,looks like the foliage will be pretty far along once the season starts.
The only thing about this warm weather that worries me in the green up early ,,I hunt some thick areas
Quote from: M,Yingling on March 24, 2012, 06:25:14 PM
The only thing about this warm weather that worries me in the green up early ,,I hunt some thick areas
same here once those huckleberry bushes start to grow up it gets tough.seems like those old gobblers know how to use them to
there advantage.
Quote from: Fullfan on March 24, 2012, 08:07:26 AM
We all have to remember that it is not all about killing a gobbler... Take the season for what it is going to be, because there is nothing we can do about it. When it rolls around just get out and enjoy..
Very true, but to me, it's all about hearing them. Just something about hearing them gobble, that keeps me going back? A good day to me, is hearing them and getting to mess with them, even if I don't kill one?
I know there are hard core Turkey hunters that would hunt them even if they never gobbled? Hypothetically speaking, if birds were to quit gobbling today, I'd probably quit hunting them today?I know there's more to hunting them even if they don't gobble, and I still hunt them on them gobbless days. But I go, knowing even if they don't gobble as much, I still have a chance of hearing them? As having them gobble less might not be a bad thing, as it makes me hunt harder just to hear one? But boy I love to hear them, and just wish I could hear them like I use to, and that would be just that many more better days in the woods.
Quote from: Cutt on March 24, 2012, 07:35:36 PM
Quote from: Fullfan on March 24, 2012, 08:07:26 AM
We all have to remember that it is not all about killing a gobbler... Take the season for what it is going to be, because there is nothing we can do about it. When it rolls around just get out and enjoy..
Very true, but to me, it's all about hearing them. Just something about hearing them gobble, that keeps me going back? A good day to me, is hearing them and getting to mess with them, even if I don't kill one?
I know there are hard core Turkey hunters that would hunt them even if they never gobbled? Hypothetically speaking, if birds were to quit gobbling today, I'd probably quit hunting them today?I know there's more to hunting them even if they don't gobble, and I still hunt them on them gobbless days. But I go, knowing even if they don't gobble as much, I still have a chance of hearing them? As having them gobble less might not be a bad thing, as it makes me hunt harder just to hear one? But boy I love to hear them, and just wish I could hear them like I use to, and that would be just that many more better days in the woods.
No doubt on the hearing them thing, I once had a ol timer tell me " Son you don't hear a turkey gobble, you feel it"
How true...
Quote
No doubt on the hearing them thing, I once had a ol timer tell me " Son you don't hear a turkey gobble, you feel it"
How true...
Nothing like having one sneak in behind you and letting loose! My God! the hair on the back of my neck stands straight up!
Quote from: Cutt on March 24, 2012, 07:52:21 PM
Quote
No doubt on the hearing them thing, I once had a ol timer tell me " Son you don't hear a turkey gobble, you feel it"
How true...
Nothing like having one sneak in behind you and letting loose! My God! the hair on the back of my neck stands straight up!
Except, maybe....being pinned down at ten steps by a gobbler that came in quiet and poked his head up over a log to check you out, only to having two more sneak in behind you nice and quiet, and start thrashing and fighting in the leaves about 8 steps from your set up.
All that makes for some very bad nerves.... :funnyturkey: