What's your take on switching from a pot call to a mouth call when you have a gobbler that is answering you and coming your way?
Let's say you are hunting solo, so you are the caller and the shooter, and you start calling with a pot call because, let's say... You like how it sounds, you want to reach some distance... (those would be my reasons to use a pot call)... And after a few calls, you have a gobbler answering you. You engage the conversation and you talk and he starts coming closer to you... At that point what would you think about changing calls and use your mouth call instead of your pot call, to have your hands free and put them on your gun...? My first though is : it's a no no... Because my experience as a hunter tells me that if you start calling an animal with one sound... You can't change the sound and expect the animal to keep coming... My experience tells me that the animal would get suspicious and he will most probably stop coming... But what about turkeys? Would you do this, have you done this?
I guess the simple answer is: start right away with a mouthcall. But don't you loose some distance? And I haven't yet find a mouthcall that replicates (to my hears) he perfect sound of a turkey... I could search for one, that could be an other subject of you can give me some suggestions here if you like... Lots of questions...
Good questions, YoungGobbler. Good to see you posting them...
I think your concerns about switching sounds is a valid one...and I suspect there would be times when the results of doing so would be negative. The first point I would make is that, if you have a gobbler coming to a specific sound, stick with it as long as you can. However, there is a point...usually pretty close...when movement to call becomes an issue. It is at that point when it is advantageous to be able to make a call without that movement. Of course, that need only applies in circumstances where a gobbler is close enough to be able to see you...and he has balked at coming closer to you for whatever reason. That is when being able to make subtle sounds with a mouth call might become important to drawing a gobbler within range.
On the other hand, there might also be times when a gobbler is coming to a certain sound you are making and balks well away from you. That may be because he has become distracted by something...or more likely, he has reached a point where he is going to wait for you, the hen, to come the rest of the way to him. That is not at all an unusual scenario in turkey hunting.
That is also often when "the rubber meets the road" in bringing him that final distance needed. Changing calls, or calling tactics, may be the ticket...or using other tactics such as "scratching", wing adjustment sounds, or even dead silence may bring him on...or most likely, a combination of those tactics.
To summarize my advice regarding your question: If a gobbler is coming to your calling, stick with the "one that brung him" as long as you can, but be prepared for those instances where a gobbler is going to hang up. Having a mouth call ready is part of that...as well as being prepared to do those other subtle things that make him think you are the real deal. :icon_thumright:
If a gobbler responds to your calling from a pot call and is coming your way the simple answer is stop calling. He's doing what you want and calling to him at this point may only mess things up whether it's with the original pot call or switching to a mouth call.
If, at some point, he hangs up or veers away than refer to gobbnlenuts great points. In my experience, calling to a gobbler on his way to you may have 2 negative impacts.
One; It attracts the attention of one or more of the local hens and induces a jealous response from her where she intercepts the gobbler and leads him away.
Two; tells the gobbler your interested making him hang up and wait on you....well.... because your telling him your interested, why wouldn't you go to him like your supposed too.
If I call and get a response from a gobbler I'll keep at it until I know he's coming. When he comes my direction my calling work is generally done. It becomes a waiting game. I want him to come looking for me. The balls is in his court. If I call at this point he knows I'm still there and I should be showing up at any moment because that's how it works. He gobbles to attract hens to him.
Its hard for me not to call to a gobbling turkey and usually I call pretty aggressively. I still get caught up in all the excitement and let an unwarranted call slip out with neg consequences because I'm trying to fire him up. I'm much better at it than I used to be. The trick is knowing when you got him and letting him do the rest.
It doesn't always work out. I'm tending now to error on the side of caution and it seems to work better than trying to call them all the way to the gun like I tried when I was a greenhorn.
As far a switching calls I can't speak much on that. I started hunting with pot calls and made the transition to mouth calls fairly quickly. When that happened the pots went to the wayside. Coming out mainly in high wind conditions.
I hear people talking all the time about switching through their bag of calls and finally getting a response from gobbler. I've never had that happen. Probably because my call selection was limited. 2 maybe 3 pots when I started. After my transition to mouth calls it was basically 1.
Limiting myself to 1 mouth call I found changes in dialect would be similar to the response some get from switching through their call bag.
What I mean by this if a standard yelp isn't working for me I'll pick up the tempo and intensity. Trying to sound more pleading or excited if you will and progress into cutts and cutt yelp sequences. Mind you this is mostly done to birds already gobbling but not responding to me. I'll be waiting on his gobble and hit him right away, cutting him off if I'm quick enough. I'll test him every so often to see if he responds to me all the while waiting on his gobble so I can answer immediately. When I get his attention I'll stick with what got it until he starts coming my. When that happens I let him come looking. No calling until he's not coming any longer. If he goes quiet, I'll wait as long as I can stand it for him to show up and than I'll force myself to wait some more before checking on him. Usually checking on him is not needed at some point he'll show up or gobble letting you know where he's at.
When there's no gobbling going on I'm not saying much, mostly listening. Light calling from what I feel is a good position every half hour maybe longer. I don't want to burn through my repertoire until the time is right.
Sorry. That was a pretty long winded way of saying. Don't call, let him come.
Quote from: GobbleNut on August 05, 2023, 09:20:06 AM
Good questions, YoungGobbler. Good to see you posting them...
I think your concerns about switching sounds is a valid one...and I suspect there would be times when the results of doing so would be negative. The first point I would make is that, if you have a gobbler coming to a specific sound, stick with it as long as you can. However, there is a point...usually pretty close...when movement to call becomes an issue. It is at that point when it is advantageous to be able to make a call without that movement. Of course, that need only applies in circumstances where a gobbler is close enough to be able to see you...and he has balked at coming closer to you for whatever reason. That is when being able to make subtle sounds with a mouth call might become important to drawing a gobbler within range.
On the other hand, there might also be times when a gobbler is coming to a certain sound you are making and balks well away from you. That may be because he has become distracted by something...or more likely, he has reached a point where he is going to wait for you, the hen, to come the rest of the way to him. That is not at all an unusual scenario in turkey hunting.
That is also often when "the rubber meets the road" in bringing him that final distance needed. Changing calls, or calling tactics, may be the ticket...or using other tactics such as "scratching", wing adjustment sounds, or even dead silence may bring him on...or most likely, a combination of those tactics.
To summarize my advice regarding your question: If a gobbler is coming to your calling, stick with the "one that brung him" as long as you can, but be prepared for those instances where a gobbler is going to hang up. Having a mouth call ready is part of that...as well as being prepared to do those other subtle things that make him think you are the real deal. :icon_thumright:
Thanks for taking time to answer the questions I post, I do appreciate it!
Quote from: Paulmyr on August 05, 2023, 02:01:02 PM
If a gobbler responds to your calling from a pot call and is coming your way the simple answer is stop calling. He's doing what you want and calling to him at this point may only mess things up whether it's with the original pot call or switching to a mouth call.
If, at some point, he hangs up or veers away than refer to gobbnlenuts great points. In my experience, calling to a gobbler on his way to you may have 2 negative impacts.
One; It attracts the attention of one or more of the local hens and induces a jealous response from her where she intercepts the gobbler and leads him away.
Two; tells the gobbler your interested making him hang up and wait on you....well.... because your telling him your interested, why wouldn't you go to him like your supposed too.
If I call and get a response from a gobbler I'll keep at it until I know he's coming. When he comes my direction my calling work is generally done. It becomes a waiting game. I want him to come looking for me. The balls is in his court. If I call at this point he knows I'm still there and I should be showing up at any moment because that's how it works. He gobbles to attract hens to him.
Its hard for me not to call to a gobbling turkey and usually I call pretty aggressively. I still get caught up in all the excitement and let an unwarranted call slip out with neg consequences because I'm trying to fire him up. I'm much better at it than I used to be. The trick is knowing when you got him and letting him do the rest.
It doesn't always work out. I'm tending now to error on the side of caution and it seems to work better than trying to call them all the way to the gun like I tried when I was a greenhorn.
As far a switching calls I can't speak much on that. I started hunting with pot calls and made the transition to mouth calls fairly quickly. When that happened the pots went to the wayside. Coming out mainly in high wind conditions.
I hear people talking all the time about switching through their bag of calls and finally getting a response from gobbler. I've never had that happen. Probably because my call selection was limited. 2 maybe 3 pots when I started. After my transition to mouth calls it was basically 1.
Limiting myself to 1 mouth call I found changes in dialect would be similar to the response some get from switching through their call bag.
What I mean by this if a standard yelp isn't working for me I'll pick up the tempo and intensity. Trying to sound more pleading or excited if you will and progress into cutts and cutt yelp sequences. Mind you this is mostly done to birds already gobbling but not responding to me. I'll be waiting on his gobble and hit him right away, cutting him off if I'm quick enough. I'll test him every so often to see if he responds to me all the while waiting on his gobble so I can answer immediately. When I get his attention I'll stick with what got it until he starts coming my. When that happens I let him come looking. No calling until he's not coming any longer. If he goes quiet, I'll wait as long as I can stand it for him to show up and than I'll force myself to wait some more before checking on him. Usually checking on him is not needed at some point he'll show up or gobble letting you know where he's at.
When there's no gobbling going on I'm not saying much, mostly listening. Light calling from what I feel is a good position every half hour maybe longer. I don't want to burn through my repertoire until the time is right.
Sorry. That was a pretty long winded way of saying. Don't call, let him come.
Thanks for your time! You don't have to be sorry, I enjoyed the lenght of your comment. I think I will have to try to call less, to wait more.
I see many guys using only a mouthcall... I will search for one that have good reviews and that replicates realisticaly the sounds of turkeys... I will search through this forum for older treads on this and I might start a tread on this question...
Quote from: YoungGobbler on August 06, 2023, 01:31:56 PM
I see many guys using only a mouthcall... I will search for one that have good reviews and that replicates realisticaly the sounds of turkeys... I will search through this forum for older treads on this and I might start a tread on this question...
I am one of the guys that uses mouth calls almost exclusively. If you are not an experienced mouth call user, you will likely find out that relying on the advice of others about what call brands or call construction to use will be a very frustrating exercise for you. You will probably get as many recommendations at there are mouth call users on this site. :D
My basic advice would be to get some inexpensive calls with varying reed construction and cuts to begin with. From my experience having taught quite a few folks how to use mouth calls, I would recommend some basic two and/or three reed calls made of thinner latex materials and with cut designs based on the basic "center V-cut" design. That design can be modified and "personalized" better than just about any other call design.
If you would like some more specific ideas on call designs that I think you should start with, just ask. However, I am pretty certain you will get a lot of other recommendations from others here. :) :icon_thumright:
...You might also take a look at the mouth call section on the site. Lots of good information there.
Quote from: Paulmyr on August 05, 2023, 02:01:02 PM
If a gobbler responds to your calling from a pot call and is coming your way the simple answer is stop calling. He's doing what you want and calling to him at this point may only mess things up whether it's with the original pot call or switching to a mouth call.
If, at some point, he hangs up or veers away than refer to gobbnlenuts great points. In my experience, calling to a gobbler on his way to you may have 2 negative impacts.
One; It attracts the attention of one or more of the local hens and induces a jealous response from her where she intercepts the gobbler and leads him away.
Two; tells the gobbler your interested making him hang up and wait on you....well.... because your telling him your interested, why wouldn't you go to him like your supposed too.
If I call and get a response from a gobbler I'll keep at it until I know he's coming. When he comes my direction my calling work is generally done. It becomes a waiting game. I want him to come looking for me. The balls is in his court. If I call at this point he knows I'm still there and I should be showing up at any moment because that's how it works. He gobbles to attract hens to him.
Its hard for me not to call to a gobbling turkey and usually I call pretty aggressively. I still get caught up in all the excitement and let an unwarranted call slip out with neg consequences because I'm trying to fire him up. I'm much better at it than I used to be. The trick is knowing when you got him and letting him do the rest.
It doesn't always work out. I'm tending now to error on the side of caution and it seems to work better than trying to call them all the way to the gun like I tried when I was a greenhorn.
As far a switching calls I can't speak much on that. I started hunting with pot calls and made the transition to mouth calls fairly quickly. When that happened the pots went to the wayside. Coming out mainly in high wind conditions.
I hear people talking all the time about switching through their bag of calls and finally getting a response from gobbler. I've never had that happen. Probably because my call selection was limited. 2 maybe 3 pots when I started. After my transition to mouth calls it was basically 1.
Limiting myself to 1 mouth call I found changes in dialect would be similar to the response some get from switching through their call bag.
What I mean by this if a standard yelp isn't working for me I'll pick up the tempo and intensity. Trying to sound more pleading or excited if you will and progress into cutts and cutt yelp sequences. Mind you this is mostly done to birds already gobbling but not responding to me. I'll be waiting on his gobble and hit him right away, cutting him off if I'm quick enough. I'll test him every so often to see if he responds to me all the while waiting on his gobble so I can answer immediately. When I get his attention I'll stick with what got it until he starts coming my. When that happens I let him come looking. No calling until he's not coming any longer. If he goes quiet, I'll wait as long as I can stand it for him to show up and than I'll force myself to wait some more before checking on him. Usually checking on him is not needed at some point he'll show up or gobble letting you know where he's at.
When there's no gobbling going on I'm not saying much, mostly listening. Light calling from what I feel is a good position every half hour maybe longer. I don't want to burn through my repertoire until the time is right.
Sorry. That was a pretty long winded way of saying. Don't call, let him come.
Amen - Paul is giving you wise counsel. I too try to call as little as possible. If he is coming, I just tend to leave him alone. He is spot on though, the more you talk, the more likely another hen gets involved and often that is not a good thing. Put down the pot and be on the gun so that you don't get busted if he sneaks in with very few gobbles towards the end of his approach. My bottom line - You can always call more - but don't be in a hurry to do so.
If it is after 10:30-11:00, and even more so after lunch, if he gobbles at your calling - he will more times than not be over to check you out soon enough without any need of an additional set of calling. Later in the day like that, he will generally come much faster than early morning, so have your head on a swivel and don't get busted if you can help it.
While I will always have a diaphragm in my mouth in case I have to do something hands free at the end of the dance, more times than not, - if you want to switch sounds while he is on his final approach, then scratching in the leaves will probably work better than changing from a pot to a diaphragm as far as sound. He can hear leaf scratching further than most realize.
All good points. I too like a pot call's sounds, but some of the ugliest sounds I have heard have come from a hen. Had one on the limb this year, roosted over water, that called so much and so often if that was a hunter, I would have said they were crazy.
I worked one this year that I knew heard me on flydown, answered me once 90 minutes later, gobbled once on his own to some hens probably another 90 minutes later. I very softly called to the hens and stopped. The last gobble I heard was when he stepped in to range. He knew there was a hen there the whole time and his last gobble was 'Here I am sweet thang, where are you?" He was never more than a couple hundred yards away, if that, and finally decided to come on in. He was just working on turkey time and not my time and I had the patience to wait. I never even needed a mouth call, but I always have one in and ready.
Like I have heard with ducks, call to arses and elbows. If your enemy is doing what you want, let him do it!
Whatever call he's responding to is the call i will stick with, with a mouth call in my mouth if i think i will need it to get him to stop and stretch his head up if needed. And also to cut down on movement, but as always just listen to him and let him tell you what he needs for you to close the deal on him... He could come straight to you or he could circle you, it's gobblers being gobblers ... IMO .... He could also just be giving you a courtesy gobbler or two with no intention of closing the deal ...That's why i enjoy chasing them, you have to defeat them on his ground...
Quote from: GobbleNut on August 07, 2023, 07:49:57 PM
Quote from: YoungGobbler on August 06, 2023, 01:31:56 PM
I see many guys using only a mouthcall... I will search for one that have good reviews and that replicates realisticaly the sounds of turkeys... I will search through this forum for older treads on this and I might start a tread on this question...
I am one of the guys that uses mouth calls almost exclusively. If you are not an experienced mouth call user, you will likely find out that relying on the advice of others about what call brands or call construction to use will be a very frustrating exercise for you. You will probably get as many recommendations at there are mouth call users on this site. :D
My basic advice would be to get some inexpensive calls with varying reed construction and cuts to begin with. From my experience having taught quite a few folks how to use mouth calls, I would recommend some basic two and/or three reed calls made of thinner latex materials and with cut designs based on the basic "center V-cut" design. That design can be modified and "personalized" better than just about any other call design.
If you would like some more specific ideas on call designs that I think you should start with, just ask. However, I am pretty certain you will get a lot of other recommendations from others here. :) :icon_thumright:
...You might also take a look at the mouth call section on the site. Lots of good information there.
I think I will try to get a 3 reed call, because I have a 2 reed one and it doesn't seem very natural... I like Your suggestion of getting some and try them!
Use both! Act as if you are 2 different hens calling to that gobbler, when he gets inside 100 or so you can finish him with the mouth call, hands free, if you need to. But as others have said, going silent or scratching in the leaves is a very effective way of finishing your gobbler.
I'm very curious about going silent... To me it sounds unnatural to stop communicating to an animal that you started a conversation with...
Quote from: YoungGobbler on December 14, 2023, 09:09:41 AM
I'm very curious about going silent... To me it sounds unnatural to stop communicating to an animal that you started a conversation with...
Excellent point (and question), YoungGobbler. It seems counterintuitive to stop doing what a gobbler is responding to and is coming your way...and that is correct in some circumstances. The problem we all face at times...and quite often...is a circumstance where a gobbler comes to a certain point and will not come any closer. That is the type of situation we are referring to above where you have to adopt a different strategy to get those gobblers to decide to come all the way to you.
From my experience, the most common time when you have to switch tactics is when a gobbler gets close enough that he expects either to see the hen that is calling to him...or reaches a point where he expects the hen to come towards him rather than him coming that final distance. Those birds will often "hang up", as we like to call it, and that is when using other "non-verbal" tactics like "imitation leaf-scratching become critical. These are also situations where having a "visual aid" such as a decoy can be an important asset.
In your turkey hunting, you will face off with a number of different types of gobblers. There will be those that come marching right in to your calling without hesitation...usually two-year-old gobblers that have not had any experience with turkey hunters...and there are gobblers that will balk at approaching your calling in some fashion (usually the older, more experienced longbeards).
In summary, every encounter with a gobbler will provide you with different levels difficulty in terms of eventually having the opportunity to give them a ride home. Knowing which tricks to use and how to use them is important...and those tricks often just come with experience in hunting all those different types of gobblers.
In the meantime, we are all hoping the gobbler we start calling to is one of those gullible two-year-olds. They can make all of us feel like we are "experts". ;D
Quote from: YoungGobbler on December 14, 2023, 09:09:41 AM
I'm very curious about going silent... To me it sounds unnatural to stop communicating to an animal that you started a conversation with...
Also, if you understand that Mr Tom is more driven to find the hen than the hen is to find him, it helps to use that in your arsenal. Calling in a Tom in the fall when his mind is not on love requires much different tactics.
Well put Gobblenut! This GAME will drive you NUTS most days but when things go your way, it's MAGICAL. This is why we ALL Love this sport!
Quote from: bbcoach on December 14, 2023, 01:47:06 PM
Well put Gobblenut! This GAME will drive you NUTS most days but when things go your way, it's MAGICAL. This is why we ALL Love this sport!
Very well put .....
they do not care when u switch at all
A lot of great information here. Too many good quotes to list. As said before, we are working against nature. We are asking the gobbler to leave the comfort and safety of his strut zone and come to a hen. Both things go against his nature. I agree with the silent treatment. If he is coming your way, let him come. Don't call in the competition or take a chance on making a call he doesn't like. Extra calls also give him hope that you may come to him. He knows where you are and unless presented with a better option, he will eventually come and check things out. How many times have people awakened from a nap to find a gobbler in their lap.
In the end, you have to read the room. See what this gobbler wants.
One trick that has been successful at times for me is a gobbler cluck. Now, he thinks another gobbler is moving in on the hen. Then, moving to the situation is part of his nature. Not a perfect solution but it is another arrow for your quiver.
Quote from: Notsoyoungturk on March 21, 2024, 10:35:00 AM
A lot of great information here. Too many good quotes to list. As said before, we are working against nature. We are asking the gobbler to leave the comfort and safety of his strut zone and come to a hen. Both things go against his nature. I agree with the silent treatment. If he is coming your way, let him come. Don't call in the competition or take a chance on making a call he doesn't like. Extra calls also give him hope that you may come to him. He knows where you are and unless presented with a better option, he will eventually come and check things out. How many times have people awakened from a nap to find a gobbler in their lap.
In the end, you have to read the room. See what this gobbler wants.
One trick that has been successful at times for me is a gobbler cluck. Now, he thinks another gobbler is moving in on the hen. Then, moving to the situation is part of his nature. Not a perfect solution but it is another arrow for your quiver.
Thanks for your advice Buddy :icon_thumright:
Some really, really good advice given...
In general, the more I have hunted, the more I have learned to call as much as necessary, and as little as possible.
Inevitably, birds will slow down and often begin a more nervous approach as they get close to the gun... At some point they either expect to see that hen, or for her to come to him... Very often they walk and talk more nervously as they approach gun range with no sign of a hen.
I think like most of us, I like to continue with the strategy or call that is working... Cause well, it is working. But once I have a bird I even think is coming, I also have a mouth call in place...
I often start a bird on a friction call that I finish on a mouth call... Maybe it is a bird that walks behind those rocks or bushes, and I want him to come out the side I can shoot... Often it is a quiet cluck or purr in response to nervous clucking from a close tom (a.k.a. bubble cluck)... Sometimes it is to make him pick up his head when he is in range so I can shoot him more easily....
There are probably a few birds I might have killed with more aggressive calling... But there are a lot more that might have continued to come, if I just would have shut up a bit more.
In the past several years, seems like I kill at least one eating lunch... Pick a nice spot where I can eat... Get my lunch laid out, do a serious of calling, and relax and eat... I have dropped at least one sandwich from an unexpected close gobble... Last season, I had to switch my sandwich for a shotgun when a bird suddenly and quietly appeared right in front of me in half-strut.
It is a fun game, but the turkeys often seem to break the rules... :bike2:
I want to pose a question, are we as hunters, too apprehensive, about soft calling birds in that last 100 yards because of confidence? I for one, have been apprehensive of soft calling birds in because I didn't have confidence in my soft calling. Last spring I found a mouth call that I am total confident in and will be utilizing the technique more.
I would say yes bbcoach, we are not confident in soft calling. I get hung up on what I hear and not what the gobbler hears. I know they can hear many times better then us, but I just have a hard time believing it. I also like hearing myself call and it's just an ego thing. I have undoubtedly messed up more birds than I have killed by over calling, but man am I having fun.
Quote from: eggshell on March 22, 2024, 07:33:11 AM
I would say yes bbcoach, we are not confident in soft calling. I get hung up on what I hear and not what the gobbler hears. I know they can hear many times better then us, but I just have a hard time believing it. I also like hearing myself call and it's just an ego thing. I have undoubtedly messed up more birds than I have killed by over calling, but man am I having fun.
Quote from: bbcoach on March 22, 2024, 07:08:37 AM
I want to pose a question, are we as hunters, too apprehensive, about soft calling birds in that last 100 yards because of confidence? I for one, have been apprehensive of soft calling birds in because I didn't have confidence in my soft calling.
Last spring I found a mouth call that I am total confident in and will be utilizing the technique more.
That is the key...using the right call for those close-in encounters. From what I can tell by looking at most mouth call designs I see on the market, it seems to me most of them are constructed in a way where they are not conducive to soft calling...at least when used by your "average caller". The mouth call "fad" in today's hunting world appears to me to be catering to loud, aggressive calling rather than the soft stuff.
In reality, it is easy to fall for that mind-set when that "average guy" sees the "top-tier" callers using a particular call and wants to emulate that calling. Unfortunately, "that calling" is often done with a call that, when used by the average guy, is not capable of producing those soft calls for them. When they get into that situation where those soft sounds are needed, they cannot reproduce them on the call they are using because that call is not designed for that to begin with.
Conversely, the right call design for that "close in" stuff may not produce the more aggressive sounds sometimes needed, as well. Summary: if you are a mouth call user, it is not "against the rules" to carry multiple calls that are specifically designed for certain purposes and just switch out when needed and as the circumstances call for. :icon_thumright:
I find myself agreeing with you more and more Gobblenut. Up until last spring, I thought I needed to practice more and more and get more proficient with the mouth call I was using but I found out it wasn't the caller, it was the call. For me, it was about the thickness of the reeds and tension that was the problem not me. Will I mess up? Yep, but if I allow him to walk off without trying some soft feeding calls and/or scratching in the leaves, I'm never going to learn a thing. To me, turkey hunting is ALL about learning from our mistakes, but it may become a Triumph if we have a little more Confidence in ourselves.
Lots of good stuff here. Theres this little saying i once heard from im not sure where, that has done me very good, "never interupt your enemy while hes making a mistake."
This has helped me to, as Marc stated earlier, call as much as necessary and as little as possible.
As for the question "it seems unnatural to end a conversation that youve started with an animal". As gobblenut mentioned, its all situational. I will say though, i killed a bird in south florida this year that i 'started' a conversation with. 15 minutes before i shot him, i stopped responding to him. The entire time, i could hear another hunter approaching from the opposite direction with a pot call. As the other hunter called to the gobbler, i responded 1 time to the other caller, but again, not to the gobbler. The gobbler and his hen chose to go in my direction. And the way that hen came in looking, i believe that i fooled them into thinking i was the real deal, as opposed to the other hunters that 'kept having a conversation'. Im not saying this would work every time. However, i listen to turkey audio almost every day, and spend a fair amount of time sitting under or near roost sites, and i dont believe it to be unnatural at all. For all that gobbler knows, she could have gone silent because she already has a boyfriend with her, and maybe hes willing to come attempt at stealing her away?
Regardless of his thought process, or lack thereof (their brain is the size of a walnut) - just as curiosity killed the cat, so i believe curiosity will kill the gobbler.
Sent from my SM-S918W using Tapatalk
Quote from: bbcoach on March 22, 2024, 07:08:37 AM
I want to pose a question, are we as hunters, too apprehensive, about soft calling birds in that last 100 yards because of confidence? I for one, have been apprehensive of soft calling birds in because I didn't have confidence in my soft calling. Last spring I found a mouth call that I am total confident in and will be utilizing the technique more.
Quote from: eggshell on March 22, 2024, 07:33:11 AM
I would say yes bbcoach, we are not confident in soft calling. I get hung up on what I hear and not what the gobbler hears. I know they can hear many times better then us, but I just have a hard time believing it. I also like hearing myself call and it's just an ego thing. I have undoubtedly messed up more birds than I have killed by over calling, but man am I having fun.
Quote from: GobbleNut on March 22, 2024, 09:56:58 AM
That is the key...using the right call for those close-in encounters. From what I can tell by looking at most mouth call designs I see on the market, it seems to me most of them are constructed in a way where they are not conducive to soft calling...at least when used by your "average caller". The mouth call "fad" in today's hunting world appears to me to be catering to loud, aggressive calling rather than the soft stuff.
Some great posts!
Most of us like hearing ourselves call, and even more so getting a response from a bird (even when doing so is counterproductive to actually killing the bird we are calling).
My impression on mouth calls is, that I will not put one in on a bird I am working, unless I am familiar enough with, and capable of making some "softer sounds." Lots of calls either stay in the drawer at home, or go in the garbage, cause I, me cannot make the sounds I want with them.
I have in recent years, been able to watch and call birds I cannot hunt from longer distances... Looking at birds I can barely see with binoculars and watching their body positions change (sometimes going in and out of half-strut) at long-distance subtle calling... Often changing direction towards me... I have been amazed at the distances these birds can sometimes apparently hear even the most quiet of calling!
And... It is also my observation when considering an "interested bird," that more often, it is the quiet birds that start moving towards my direction, and the bird that gobbles stays put... Yet... Even after these observations, I still get nervous and anxious when a vocal bird goes quiet. I WANT to hear him gobble, and I want to MAKE him gobble... As I have aged, I have developed the ability to stay quiet for longer, and let things unfold more and more often.
I do believe that practice with a mouth call is important... And being able to position that call in your mouth without thinking, to quickly make the sounds you desire to make. Me... I have to reposition a call to go from high-end to low-end. I want a call in my mouth that I intuitively know where to position and how to make the sounds I want...
Too many
My routine of calling is pretty simple. I'll use friction calls to start, ie; Box, pot, pushpin etc. I've added trumpets and wing bones in as of late. Once I get him to engage and I know he's coming, I'll stick to what fired him up. Here's my rule of thumb: "Once I see him", I switch to my mouth call, no more movement. On occasion I'll hit my push-pin that is laying at my side on ground to keep him coming. I've been using a mouth call since the 80's, so I am confident with it. Never had this "switch" stop a bird from coming to the gun. I can say that the mouth call is my "finisher". Great posts here....
Quote from: bbcoach on March 22, 2024, 07:08:37 AM
I want to pose a question, are we as hunters, too apprehensive, about soft calling birds in that last 100 yards because of confidence? I for one, have been apprehensive of soft calling birds in because I didn't have confidence in my soft calling. Last spring I found a mouth call that I am total confident in and will be utilizing the technique more.
Another comment on confidence and soft calling "closer" birds...
I find it is easier to make a soft cluck or turkey sound, than to properly produce a good loud yelp on a mouth call.
I do NOT like calling at birds within 100 yards that I can see. They can pinpoint sound exceptionally well, and I feel he is likely to pinpoint me. If I can see him, he can generally see me, especially if I pinpoint my location by calling to him.
If a bird at 100 yards is walking my direction, I remain still and quiet... If he starts going the wrong direction, I wait until he is behind some sort of physical visual barrier, and give a pur or cluck, or chirp. If he does not veer off, I wait until he is in good gun range and do the deed...
That bird that is coming, and veers off, will often circle around and come in from behind... If he veers off and goes above me to the right, I will turn around... Might come in high/right, or high left.
Quote from: bbcoach on March 22, 2024, 07:08:37 AM
I want to pose a question, are we as hunters, too apprehensive, about soft calling birds in that last 100 yards because of confidence? I for one, have been apprehensive of soft calling birds in because I didn't have confidence in my soft calling. Last spring I found a mouth call that I am total confident in and will be utilizing the technique more.
It's definitely not a confidence issue for me. I'm definitely confidant I suck at soft purrs and whines so I just don't use them. I'll use soft yelps if needed. Or leave scratching if the cover/ terrain is in my favor.
I'm getting better but have never had a gobbler come in and go away from a lack of soft calling. Bad set ups and hens stealing them away is a different story.
I've been doing the friction to mouth call regimen since I was a teen. If I get a response, it instantly goes back in the pouch and the diaphram comes out.
Next step is to make sure my gun is ready for duty, I'm in a comfy shooting position, and I have a good stick or wing for scratching the leaves. Make the transition to sound like a hen who's just out with the girls and indifferent to the Tom's intentions. Soft cluck and purr, scratching, low and sweet 3 note yelps: it's magic.
Actually, may not be too magic, because it's actually realistic.
So much so, he'll never notice you switched calls.
Quote from: RustyBarrels on April 02, 2024, 03:16:07 PM
I've been doing the friction to mouth call regimen since I was a teen. If I get a response, it instantly goes back in the pouch and the diaphram comes out.
Next step is to make sure my gun is ready for duty, I'm in a comfy shooting position,
I actually prefer to set up behind a rock or a fallen tree (as opposed to leaning against a tree)... Good rest for the gun, with reduced movement... And... I always have a friction call beside me, so that I can call to that close bird that is getting nervous... Hearing a bird he cannot see behind a fallen log seems to make them more curious as opposed to more nervous...
Quote from: Marc on April 02, 2024, 08:34:00 PM
I actually prefer to set up behind a rock or a fallen tree (as opposed to leaning against a tree)... Good rest for the gun, with reduced movement... And... I always have a friction call beside me, so that I can call to that close bird that is getting nervous... Hearing a bird he cannot see behind a fallen log seems to make them more curious as opposed to more nervous...
Same here, Marc. Anymore, I always try to set up behind an object that will allow some movement, if needed. Like you state, a log, rock, tree or bush of the proper size is ideal. The perfect set-up for me is having that situation and with a larger tree or solid object to lean up against, as well. If there is a gun support about shoulder high on whatever is in front, all the better. Granted, sometimes (often) it is hard to find that perfect combination in a hurried set-up, but given the time, I will always look for something that fits those preferences.
It seems that, over the years (decades), the long-promoted idea of just leaning up against a big tree with nothing in front to break up one's outline does not work as well as it once did...for me anyway. I think that may be a result of both my increasing age-related need to adjust my achy bones more often while sitting for a spell,...as well as pressured gobblers getting wise to approaching an unknown blob sitting out in the open against a tree. :D
In addition, in a certain set of circumstances where vision is limited due to ground vegetation or terrain features, I am more and more inclined to choose to stand rather than sit in a set-up. If I can find a nice pine tree of the right limb density to tuck into and with limbs at "gun-resting height" in that kind of situation, I will take it every time anymore. That increased vision at standing height as compared to sitting height has come into play on several occasions since I realized that sometimes standing is a better option than sitting. I can think of at least three gobblers over the last several years that I probably would not have killed if I had been sitting rather than choosing to stand in my set-up.
Great post Everyone,
If by myself, if he's interested and a good way out. I'm mixing it up between my pot and mouth call. My mouth calling isn't the best, but it's definitely not the worst and confident in doing softly. Almost everything he heard way out will sound familiar as he closes the gap. I wouldn't hit him with a new call if I know he's on the way. Sometimes... in the heat of the moment, My problem w/soft calling is when I get jacked up excited, heart pounding, hyperventilating, with mouth getting dry. Yes this still happens from time to time w/me and I hope it never goes away. When it does happen, I won't even try to produce a sound with that thing. I'll let it play out. Most times, I run a thin latex combo cut. Or something that doesn't require a lot of air to use to make them soft seductive calls.