The burn debate and the Decline of Turkeys

[Strick9]

Having worked for both the USFS and the SCDNR as a biologist and LE as well I have always followed these agencies management techniques and applications as they relate to key wildlife species. I have also owned my own Wildlife consulting firm for over 10 years now and have learned the hard way as to wildlife in what works and what does not.  There are certainly guys out there that know far more than I and indeed those more versed and well spoken but it seems I have just enough time, credentials and the  loud mouth needed to occasionally get an agency moved in the right direction or at least to realize the folly in a current technique. There in is what brings me to post this today on Old Gobbler, which I consider to be one fo the best Wildlife Forums on the web hands down. If you care about the Eastern Wild Turkey and its cousins as well as other wildlife then please read along with us on the topic of Spring Season Burns as it relates to the nesting success of the Eastern Wild Turkey.   


In the last 10-15 years a devastating move has been made for wildlife of all types that used to thrive in our National Forests around the country. The move has been made by the United States Forest Service in adopting new prescribed burn technology which utilizes the aerial delivery of fire by helicopter versus the much wider known and studied manual applied drip torch burn. The USFS heralds the application as an invaluable tool which allows time savings due to much quicker burn application,  decreasing smoke impact as the burn time is cut in half and the reduction of actual personnel needed to set and tend the fire. Sounds pretty great right? Well not really as the new application is used on a much larger scale and with far less attention to detail. 

The days of men gathering around, cutting fire lines around sensitive habitats, paying close attention to Quail and Turkey nesting sites and other wildlife are now a thing of the past. The positivism of setting small mosaic drip torch fires which actually creates habitat in our National Forest are now a thing of the past as well.   

The aerial helicopter applied Spring Burn has been fully adopted in our National Forest across the nation and especially the SE. This type of burn is an entirely different beast altogether from the smaller block drip torch applied fires.

Lets me try to explain the difference. In an aerial helicopter delivered spring burn thousands of Fire Eggs , a ping pong ball filled with napalm like substance, are dropped at speeds up to 35 mph to set the head fire, the back fire, the flanking fire and then again to set the internal lateral fires. Nothing escapes and everything including young, eggs and etc are burnt before they can blink an eye or utter a peep. Typically there is a burn prescription that is to be followed that should measure what density of fire eggs/ incendiaries are dropped and where but I have it on first hand knowledge that they continually overload the bins and dump the eggs at will in massive concentrations contrary to the prescription. Obviously the more eggs dropped the quicker the fire burns and the crew gets to go home. I have seen first hand the devastation it causes this aerial burn delivery creates. I imagine some of you may have as well as you drove through a National Forest but your brain didn't click on what you were seeing. Mine didn't either at first. 

So whats the big deal some may ask? 1. You have now surrounded the area with fire from above and without announcement to alert the animals instinctual systems to take cover and or run. 2. The aerial fire pays no heed to micro habitats within the block being burnt such as hardwood bottom, ridges, or low lying bays which in the past were protected by maintained fire lines. 3. The chemical incendiary used burns through everything including the tree canopies upon which it falls and even areas that previously wouldn't have been burnt. 4. The tracts being burned with this technique are huge, much larger than the burns of past days some documented upto 6000 acres and over* 5. The aerial fire burns incredibly fast  and 7. the helicopter is very very expensive and takes away USFS jobs not creates them.
* in my area the Francis Marion National Forest Service the USFS recently burned over 2300 acres in under 5 hours.

Some of you may or may not know this but at present it is highly noted and even titled in a general name throughout the biological community that the Eastern Wild Turkey is indeed in a quick decline across the South East. Some areas have suffered up to a 40% population decrease especially on National Forest Lands. Thus many SE states decreased the bag limits for the 2016 season. Shouldn't the USFS follow suit to protect such a valuable historical and economic species? One would think so but that door is being firmly slammed right on the Turkeys Waddles.

Now it just so happens that the Eastern Wild Turkey (EWT) decline coincides with the introduction and mass adoption of the aerial delivered fire versus the manual drip torch applied fire. In 2000 many NF lands across the SE were burnt with aerial fire and only three years later the steep decline of the EWT showed itself in the National Forests across the SE and even on to private lands.

I am attempting to raise awareness of this parallel and could use all the support, knowledge base and observation i can get. I do a lot regarding state and federal WMA waterfowl management in our state as well and no matter what common sense or science is put in front of them the mass voices of the public are always what drives the change.

The last burn I refereed to in my area took place in an area known as Guillard Lake in the Francis Marion National Forest. This area was a known high density turkey and quail nesting site. It was torched off via aerial delivery in late April. The results were 2,300 acres burnt in under FIVE hours, the fire was hot and in many places nothing was left except raw dirt with a fine white ash upon the surface. Five Hours !!!!!

Please if you are on FB find my page and comment, friend me, or just hit the like button so that we can show we are all watching and aware.

Let me add I am a proponent of the spring burn when delivered in cool drip torch applied mosaics. These massive redundant fires during the rearing, nesting and brooding season however are causing nothing but further decline in not only habitat but also wildlife numbers. The one species that does greatly benefit from these type of burns is the Red Cockaded Woodpecker which just so happens to provide the USFS with millions of annual funding.. You get the point.

Here are some links and I thank all of the OG members that may chime in.

Here is some data that should make you think as well



https://www.facebook.com/scnfs/posts/1148571881860313?comment_id=1148584005192434&reply_comment_id=1149487921768709&notif_t=share_comment&notif_id=1463316746092654

and

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1149134111804090&set=a.1149159641801537.1073741826.100001225355509&type=3&theater&notif_t=like&notif_id=1463408397941531

[albrubacker]

Well written!

[g8rvet]

The fire is much hotter than fires of past as it is chemical induced in mass quantities of dropped fuel and thus often kills not only wildlife but also tree species not adapted to fire.

The chemical that starts the fire will not affect the fire that is burning in any other site than that where the ping pong ball is dropped.  The heat of the fire is related to fuel (understory), wind conditions (wind fanned) and rH.  I assume you mean because of the rapidity of the burn line/effectiveness at creating a burn, that is where the damage is done.  Do they not set those in a pre determined burn line, or is it a blitzkrieg of a mass of acreage (ie all over, rather than along a wind aided burn line).  Just ignorance on my part to that type of burning.

Other than that, pretty much everything you said is spot on. My nephew works for the state and he has found a few nests. Always tries to back burn around them if he can, but like you said, on those hot fires, that won't make much difference. 

Are there any links or sources of reading on this subject you can point me (us) to?  The feds were out burning this year during our season, but they are still using the drip torch in my area.  I called up three hens and had a gobbler at 100 yards in an area where the stumps were still smoking.  There are still nest losses even with the mosaic/drip burns too right?  I would like to learn more. 

I assume spring is chosen to reduce the fuel load and avoid killing trees/crowning as the idea burn time.  Is that correct as well?  My brother teaches burning/ does P burns and has fought wildland all over the US, my nephew works for the State and one of my best friends owns a land management/P burn company.  But they don't come from the biology side, they know how to start/extinguish. 

Good topic. 

[fountain2]

I work with the GFC.  spring burns are for hardwood control in pine plantations.  the hardwoods don't like fire

another reason for april/may burns is the longleaf pine and wiregrass regeneration.  the longleaf ecosystem is making a comeback and many are planting longleaf these days.  I actually was on a burn 5/9 and it was under mature longleaf for fuel reduction and wiregrass.  I cringed at burning that time, but its my job and it was a smaller acreage.  that said, I did find an empty turkey egg.  not sure if it hatched there or something else found the nest and destroyed it.

that said, I argee 100% with the OP. 

[g8rvet]

GFC? 

[Tunaguy]

Any notable decline in other species that experience these burns?

[TerryLNanny]

I hunt on Eglin AFB FL. 465000 acres. That's all they do is burn. Once beautiful wood's has turned in to wire grass and longleaf pines. Every time it starts to green up they burn again. Deer and Turkey numbers way down. Seems the only animal benefits is the coyote.

[fountain2]

GFC?

Georgia Forestry Commission

[HogBiologist]

Having been on a USFS burn crew and a biologist, this OP has no understanding of Rx burning and the dynamics of it. The Ping Pong ball ignition is used in remote area where personal are hard pressed to reach remote areas. With short burning weather Windows, and large areas that need rotational burning, they must employ all available techniques to get burns on the ground. Also, the forest service is in the business of forestry. No in the business of wildlife. That is the USFWS. They are burning for forest production. Managing for good timber often contradicts good wildlife management. Just look at timber companies.

[2eagles]

Like always, two sides to the coin. Interesting information in this post.

[Tail Feathers]

HogBiologist, so the USFS is managing public land for the timber companies benefit and completely ignoring the wishes/needs of the hunting public?
That seems a bit out of whack.  It is a National Forest.  Not a National Forest Inc., strictly for profit.  The should balance ALL aspects of forest management...wildlife included.

[g8rvet]

Eglin gets a pass in my book.  They have the largest contiguous stand of old growth long leaf pine in the WORLD!   How ever they need to manage that tract is okay by me.  That is a living museum of ancient Florida and valuable for the stand of pine alone. I keep saying I want to go see it and just never do. 

As far as the timber value, a lot of remote places exist in the USA thanks to the money that timber brings in to the Federal coffers.  It sucks, but forests need to pay their way as well.  USFWS does have a say in management, but not the final say. Although some of the management is not ideal for wildlife, it is better than selling it off to actual timber companies that often have never, and will never, set foot on the land-only the timbering crews and the cruisers see them.  They clear cut those stands to the absolute inch of legal allowance to the wet weather areas and leave deforested flat land.  A once beautiful turkey oak/scrub pine WMA right behind my house (Robert Brent WMA) got sold off to the timber companies and unlike the Forest Service, who cares a little about wildlife, they care not one bit.  You are hard pressed to find a turkey track in those woods that were once a great place to hunt.   I would rather have the devil I know than the one I don't. 

This is a good discussion though.  I like hearing other sides on the burn issue as well. 

[TerryLNanny]

There are still some areas on Eglin that's nice, but the land I've hunted all my life is slowly turning to waste land as far as hunting go's. I'm sure the timber is valuable as they are clear-cutting alot of wood as well. Like someone said above, there should be a balance between the USFS & USFWS. As it stands now, I don't think USFWS has much.

Eglin gets a pass in my book.  They have the largest contiguous stand of old growth long leaf pine in the WORLD!   How ever they need to manage that tract is okay by me.  That is a living museum of ancient Florida and valuable for the stand of pine alone. I keep saying I want to go see it and just never do. 

As far as the timber value, a lot of remote places exist in the USA thanks to the money that timber brings in to the Federal coffers.  It sucks, but forests need to pay their way as well.  USFWS does have a say in management, but not the final say. Although some of the management is not ideal for wildlife, it is better than selling it off to actual timber companies that often have never, and will never, set foot on the land-only the timbering crews and the cruisers see them.  They clear cut those stands to the absolute inch of legal allowance to the wet weather areas and leave deforested flat land.  A once beautiful turkey oak/scrub pine WMA right behind my house (Robert Brent WMA) got sold off to the timber companies and unlike the Forest Service, who cares a little about wildlife, they care not one bit.  You are hard pressed to find a turkey track in those woods that were once a great place to hunt.   I would rather have the devil I know than the one I don't. 

This is a good discussion though.  I like hearing other sides on the burn issue as well. 

[HogBiologist]

HogBiologist, so the USFS is managing public land for the timber companies benefit and completely ignoring the wishes/needs of the hunting public?
That seems a bit out of whack.  It is a National Forest.  Not a National Forest Inc., strictly for profit.  The should balance ALL aspects of forest management...wildlife included.

Not "for", but like. They have regulations to protect T&E species. But tree management is their #1 goal.

[Strick9]

Hog, step away from your Crystal Ball. You couldn't show yourself to be further off base and without knowledge than you just did in your statements.

I log over 200 days a year in this forest and have since 1988 approximatel. I was a USFS employee and have prescribed burnt 1000s of acres. I was also a biologist for the SCDNR and also a Game Warden for the SCDNR. I currently serve as a Wildlife consultant on many large tracts of land and serve on three different hunting/land conservation boards.

Hog, you and I have spoken before and I believe we had intelligent conversation but it amazes me so how many so scientific ingrained or brainwashed rather individuals can assess an area without ever having laid eyes on it or the way the burn by this group in this forest is applied. When you do this it really shows to your credibility as no true scientist , biologist or otherwise would do anything more than generalize without having seen the particular site in question with their own eyes. I would take that advise to heart if you wish to hold credibility. 

But to answer some questions:

NO the aerial burns are NOT just used in remote areas that need burning. IF that was the case I wouldn't be on here. They are used in easy access and I mean as easy acess as you can get as in blocks of woods up to 2500 acres and over which are surrounded by and intercrossed with road systems.  AS a matter of fact one of my beefs with this particular office is that there are areas that desperately need to be burned which are not getting lit while areas that were high density turkey nesting sites and of high game species densities are getting torched annually.

I will go ahead and lay out why this is occurring as told to me by a retired prescribed burn manager from the USFS and a hugely respected consultant as to burns and wildlife. He says,  affirmative action is to blame. As to fill various quotas of minority hiring there is no longer a physical requirement for tech positions thus the obese, the out of shape, the afraid of snakes, the afraid of bugs crowd has infiltrated into the very reaches of a field that is required to have brawn, courage and strength. Now you certainly can't tell an African American lesbian to get her fat arse out the truck and that its time to hold this line or you will be fired can you? Those were his exact words , well dang near it..

Also there is a burn budget where to receive annual funding the USFS must burn X amount of acreage to substantiate the extreme cost of the Helicopter which I am being told is around 20k per day whether on the ground or in the air. I am doing my best to gain actual numbers. 

Moving on...

Yes there is the possibility of nest destruction even in smaller mosaic burns it is just far less and also far less of a threat to other species.

Yes there are many other species in decline that share the same needs and habitats as the Wild Turkey mostly amphibians and low nesting song birds.  Wild Quail being the most sportsmen related species. Quail Forever is a huge ally on this topic.

The purpose of the fire being set is always notated as fuel reduction even when the area only has one year of duff build up . You can literally see for 100s of yards in most of the annually burnt blocks.

The fires intensity in low fuel areas is 100 percent in relation to how many incendiaries are dropped. I am not just spouting information but have many friends that still work with the USFS. They tell me the RX is never followed and that the density of fire eggs dropped is usually 3-5 times what the RX call for if not more. That is how an area low in fuels still gets burned severally as does the canopies of the trees. Make sense?

Here is how the application goes. Imagine a square with sides NSEW.. The wind is out of the North. The chopper lays down the North line , head fire, then the S line the backing fire then the flanking fires E and W now the chopper goes back through with flanking strips on the E and W bearing until all is burned.

Once these aerial burned blocks held a myriad of species and now they don't its that really simple. Five years of dense, massive aerial burning an ecosystem at this scale intensity will do that anywhere on any ecosystem. Thats common sense. 

Hog, I don't mean to come off strong on you. But  I am old enough and well traveled enough to only offer a "intelligent opinion" on something that I have not seen with my own eyes.  Especially when the practiced application by team A might be correct whilst Team B with the same equipment completely devastates the entire procedure.

To speak that Timber Harvest by the USFS produces profit is to show ones complete ignorance of accounting at the USFS.   Currently this same office is under investigation for a 5 million dollar timber sale loss that no one can explain several employees are under Admin leave and have been terminated. Unfortunately its mostly scrubbed from the web so you would have to ask around and listen well.

Some great questions and I appreciate them.

I am not looking to stop spring burning. I am looking to curtail aerial delivery and to hopefully put a little emphasis on the time at which it occurs. Again its only common sense.