Killing versus hunting

[Happy]

I have thought the same thing for years. Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to put people down and prop myself up over things like blinds, decoys, fans, foodplots,etc. But I honestly think it is letting too many turkeys get killed that would otherwise be walking. And, quite frankly, and I will admit this is somewhat selfish, I would rather put the brakes on those activities(exceptions for handicapped and elderly people) and leave seasons and bag limits alone. I think people would be surprised at the results. The people that really want to succeed are still going to figure it out and make it work.

[Prospector]

I have thought the same thing for years. Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to put people down and prop myself up over things like blinds, decoys, fans, foodplots,etc. But I honestly think it is letting too many turkeys get killed that would otherwise be walking. And, quite frankly, and I will admit this is somewhat selfish, I would rather put the brakes on those activities(exceptions for handicapped and elderly people) and leave seasons and bag limits alone. I think people would be surprised at the results. The people that really want to succeed are still going to figure it out and make it work.

AMEN. I've progressed thru the stages much like has been described. IMO I went from newbie, thru my own " killer" phase ( but I stayed with in the law), to what I now describe as becoming a Turkey hunter. This is not a place that is defined by kills/limits. Nowadays, there are more people finding success using means that are legal, sure, but not necessarily in accordance of what it should be. But here's the takeaway: this has always been. The problem is there are more and more coming to the sport and then just stagnating right there in that phase never to progress... and old timers are either afraid to speak up or stagnating right there with them.
Now I'm quite sure someone will probably arque that I'm just a whiner. That I'm mad because I'm not killing any turkeys. That any legal means is right. I've said this already in another post: we all want our woods back with freedom of choice as  to when and where ( eg. No draw hunts etc). The only way that you can have both short of owning your own land is to make it where the less committed lose interest. Make it hard again. There I said it- I'm selfish too- maybe you and I can be an army of two. Legal is not necessarily right. Eg. If the current administration has its way, they'll make it LEGAL to disarm you, they ll make it LEGAL to prosecute you: most of us I think would agree that in that case it's not RIGHT.

[guesswho]

Hunters vs. Killers?   A lot of hunters are more proficient at killing than killers are at hunting, that will make sense to some.  As I reflect back on my 57 years of spring turkey hunting, a couple of things that really come to mind.   When I started with my parents way back when, there were definitely more turkeys than turkey hunters.   We used to have a 100,000 acre WMA with maybe 10 people on a busy weekend.    That is obviously not the case now.   And back then there were not many "experts", in fact I don't think there were any.  And anyone close to that status wasn't talking.   Again, obviously not the case now.   Experts everywhere, and they don't mind sharing their expertise, even with complete strangers.   So what in the world could have happened to cause a decline in turkey populations from way back then, compared to now?  And I don't see it getting any better under current laws, but hopeful I'm wrong.

[Roost 1]

This is a great thread... the kill at all cost mentality has become the normal and not the exception.
It's just not with hunters but with outfitters as well.  I got caught up with one of these outfitters this year.  It was one of the most disappointing experiences I've had in a while.  I thought I had done my homework and was very excited about my hunt especially since I know several guy a who have hunted with this guy before. However after refusing to break more than one law, I believe I was gar-holed.  Almost left after the 2nd day of the 4 day hunt, but I felt I had too much invested in the trip to pull out. In hindsight I absolutely should have cut my losses and left.   Sad part is that I'm sure this guy does these things with most of his hunters and by looking at all the dead turkeys he posts on social media, lots of todays hunters must be ok with the kill at all cost mentality.

[2flyfish4]

Also its not just turkey hunting, the same crap is going on in the duck hunting world. Everyone is now a guide bc they can put a social media page together. Its come down to putting as manny fools as you can in a blind and shooting everything that comes in because it all about making a pile.

And on another note, I'm hearing the same concerns from alot of fishing guides. With live scope and all the advances in sonar people are catching more fish than ever. Really putting a hurting on the crappie....

[Canadian]

This is a great thread... the kill at all cost mentality has become the normal and not the exception.
It's just not with hunters but with outfitters as well.  I got caught up with one of these outfitters this year.  It was one of the most disappointing experiences I've had in a while.  I thought I had done my homework and was very excited about my hunt especially since I know several guy a who have hunted with this guy before. However after refusing to break more than one law, I believe I was gar-holed.  Almost left after the 2nd day of the 4 day hunt, but I felt I had too much invested in the trip to pull out. In hindsight I absolutely should have cut my losses and left.   Sad part is that I'm sure this guy does these things with most of his hunters and by looking at all the dead turkeys he posts on social media, lots of todays hunters must be ok with the kill at all cost mentality.

I also got mixed up in a similar situation this spring. An opportunity was presented for me to go on a hunt with an outfitter for free. Absolutely hated it. Wasnt turkey hunting. I actually, without telling those in the party, didnt even load my gun. The hunt was paid for, so i dared not say anything. I just couldnt morally live with myself killing a bird at a feeder as i wait for him to come grab his breakfast. I personally am not a decoy person (nothing against others who use em), but wouldve rather used a decoy than wait for him at his dinner table. I had struggled 7 days straight in MS prior to this hunt with the outfitter, and enjoyed the struggle 1000x more than killing a ton of birds. Id rather hunt the rest of my life without killing a bird than sit on bait piles or feeders. Its not hunting.

As stated earlier, pride has been around since not long after creation. In fear of my pride, I made the conscious decision 2 years ago to not post pictures on social media anymore. Just a personal choice, but what im getting at, is i understand, as a young person, the desire to be praised by others and strive after the status of 'turkey killer'. I keep photos in an album now and only share with those closest, or new hunters that have shown an interest in hunting. As a young man, of 28, ive already been blessed with the privilege of influencing young hunters with the hunting values i was raised on by my parents and grandparents. I think all of us here could really make an impact by inviting young hunters into our world. Change all starts with the finger pointing at ourselves, not others.

I also am loving this thread. Love everybody's input. I could talk about these topics for days.

Sent from my moto g 5G (2022) using Tapatalk

[silvestris]

" I would rather put the brakes on those activities(exceptions for handicapped and elderly people..."

Happy, at 76 yoa, I fear that I fall in the elderly category.  I take exception to your exceptions.  I want nothing more than a quality call and a live turkey to whom I can ply my trade.  The latter has become a scarce commodity.

Now for handicapped (I fit in that category at the present time), I don't believe that they want a crutch, rather that they want to play the game with the cards that was dealt them and success is so much the sweeter.

[nativeks]

I know several outfitters in our area that are hunting over corn feeders more and more to put clients on birds. I got sent a picture of a youth hunter kill and the decoys are set up under the feeder looking like they are eating corn. All about laying down as many in a year as possible to post on their website. We are far more effective turkey hunters than we were 28 years ago when I started. Unfortunately the turkeys have not evolved as rapidly. A bird that would've got to see another day in the 90s now gets laid down at rifle ranges with TSS and the hunter is posting his kill on instagram before the bird has even quit flopping. We are gonna hunt turkeys into extinction in areas again I fear.

[Mossberg90MN]

It is a social media world now. Methods take a backseat to results. Many don't care how it happens as long as they get their turkey selfies.

This is the truth right here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[quavers59]

    I have always thought that too many Successful  Hunters is part of the cause of the Turkey Decline.
   Cell Cameras all over Public Lands.  Fanning/Reaping should be outlawed.

[Will]

Hunting ethics, good or bad, have changed with the current social setting involving social media. We need to get back to the basic principles of respecting the game we pursue and become better conservationists. One can only hope the most influential in the sport can help us achieve this.

[Cowboy]

We hunt to kill, but there is so much more than just the dead bird.  My dear departed friend,Ken Morgan, said "anybody can kill a turkey, but not many know how to hunt one."

That's a great quote right there.

Sent from my SM-G990U2 using Tapatalk

[turkeyfool]

I have a thought on this. I am not against outfitters, although there are some places it's certainly less needed in order to increase your chances of harvesting a bird. South Dakota would be one of those places.

Like it or not, most outfitters believe they are in the business of killing birds (doesn't make them bad people). At minimum, they believe they are in the business of putting you in a position to kill.
So my point is, the people you are more likely to run into at outfitters put more emphasis on killing and less on hunting

[Canadian]

Fellas, im still loving this conversation. I mentioned earlier that in order to make an impact, it all starts with us. What do you guys think we can be doing to make a bigger impact? Ive been keeping an eye on this thread and havent seen any pushback. I think all of the points made have been really good, and with some really wise quotes from you guys. Is there a way for us to have a bigger voice? Is there anything we can do up against this social media influenced culture?

Sent from my moto g 5G (2022) using Tapatalk

[turkeyfool]

I don't think there's much we can do. Just hope it fizzles out. Maybe if they take hunting off of youtube, it would fizzle out. Not that I want them to limit hunting on YT, but that could be the only positive side effect