Killing versus hunting

[topnotch]

Winding down this season I've had a lot of time to think.
I went to two outfitters this year ( 1st time since 2010) and I noticed something different in the people I ran into.
Jim Casada mentioned in a correspondence sometime back that the NWTF had groomed a more effective group of turkey hunters over time with all the vendors and video that's available.I think that's a fair assessment,  I mentioned earlier this year the outfitter in Georgia was all about cell camera and smartphone apps to put you on birds. I got back from Nebraska and South Dakota ( good news is I found birds in Nebraska on public more like the numbers I remember than I did last year). The outfitter in SD was a bust, their idea of hunting was ride the roads, spot birds, crawl up to them with a Fan and shoot. It was effective method, I declined but a couple of other clients choose that path and killed 6 total between them in one day (4 I saw that had were Jakes). I was thinking that predator pressure and habitat was the reason for the decline, but now I'm having second thoughts.
I guess I got spoiled, hunting with Bucky Bonner in south Texas, Glendon Sheraton in South Dakota or Lovett Williams Palmdale Florida site I remember when the guide would take you out roosting birds in the evening. If you didn't kill it was on you, but it was a hunt. Not once did either outfitter want to roost birds this year, except to show you some on property they couldn't hunt. The good thing is the birds I've killed this year were hunted not ambushed, and quite a few have won.

[GobbleNut]

The inference I think you are making that hunters are having a much greater impact on turkey numbers (especially gobbler numbers) is right on target,...and for the very reasons you bring up,...more hunters using more effective hunting methods and being willing to indiscriminately kill more birds without concern for the impact of that attitude on the future of wild turkey populations. 

Brings to mind that old phrase,..."We have met the enemy,...and it is us!" 

[Dtrkyman]

States with large open lands have definitely been effected by fanning, even the ones not killed are pursued enough to stress em out!

Never thought I would care enough but banning that method on public lands would be a good start!

Think a couple states already had it banned with laws like no motion decoy's except by wind or something like that.


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[Sir-diealot]

I have not been able to get out a lot this year but when I have I am not getting many to come into gun range. I could have taken one of three jakes on opening day but I decided when I returned from my car accident after roughly 15 years that I wanted to only take toms. Not knocking anyone that takes them, I would just rather let them grow and hunt them when they are older and wiser.

It has not even been a good year for photography either, I am just not hearing them except on the roost and on opening day and have not been seeing them much either. Only 11 days left, I am hoping I can at least get some good ones on film.

As far as the fanning goes as I have stated before I would like to have one for before and after season for taking pictures but I just do not like the idea of killing them that way, just seems unfair and unsporting to me anyway. I have not really been using decoys much the last few years.

[Greg Massey]

The inference I think you are making that hunters are having a much greater impact on turkey numbers (especially gobbler numbers) is right on target,...and for the very reasons you bring up,...more hunters using more effective hunting methods and being willing to indiscriminately kill more birds without concern for the impact of that attitude on the future of wild turkey populations. 

Brings to mind that old phrase,..."We have met the enemy,...and it is us!"

Agree 100 percent ... WE are becoming the worst predator ...I made a post a couple weeks ago about the impact we are creating ...

[2flyfish4]

The inference I think you are making that hunters are having a much greater impact on turkey numbers (especially gobbler numbers) is right on target,...and for the very reasons you bring up,...more hunters using more effective hunting methods and being willing to indiscriminately kill more birds without concern for the impact of that attitude on the future of wild turkey populations. 

Brings to mind that old phrase,..."We have met the enemy,...and it is us!"

X2

[Paulmyr]

States with large open lands have definitely been effected by fanning, even the ones not killed are pursued enough to stress em out!

Never thought I would care enough but banning that method on public lands would be a good start!

Think a couple states already had it banned with laws like no motion decoy's except by wind or something like that.


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Fanning is not limited to states with large open tracts of land. The wannabes are using them in wooded public land in the upper Midwest as well. Was on a gobbler this morn that was tearing it up. Just sat down after relocating. Gobbled, I called a couple times with no response after having him respond well  earlier and not budging. Not more than 3 mins after his last gobble some moron is hammering his crow call in the exact location. Fan or not while he tried to bushwhack  I can't exactly say. After I was finished letting the obscenities fly, I promptly headed for the truck to see if I could salvage my morning.  I've had enough of this new breed of hunter.

[Happy]

It is a social media world now. Methods take a backseat to results. Many don't care how it happens as long as they get their turkey selfies.

[Hooksfan]

No doubt we have created a mindset through social media that makes our success seem amplified, but only in our own minds. Pride and ego is nothing new, been around since creation. Social media has made the whole hunting community a big turkey camp. The old time turkey camp, where pride and ego were on open display and nearly every serious turkey hunter thought they were the best, has gone to the www and the pizzing contest is cranked up a notch.
All that matters is the kill photos and it doesn't matter how you get it. Having said that, i have , up to this point, been in the camp that I don't care what tactics others use as long as they are legal. My mind is changing in regards to the reaping issue. I have a student who is a great kid and he loves hunting. Between he and his Dad this year, including some taken for friends, they took out 7 birds this Spring. All but one was taken behind a fan. There is no doubt many who would not take a bird are increasing harvest.While I am not overly concerned about the increase in harvest, I am concerned about which birds are being removed from the population and the impact it may have on reproduction.

[Turkeyman]

Years ago if someone killed a tom you'd congratulate him. Nowadays you have to ask by what means before doing so.

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[sswv]

as I've said on here before...I have been spring gobbler hunting since the 70's and in the beginning as a young hunter you put pressure on yourself to kill a bird. nothing better to a young hunter than have an old timer brag on him. as I got older it was all about filling every tag with a mature tom. now (for me) it's all about being out there and enjoying the experience. if you can get a tom within 30yds you've won that game kill or not. example, last spring I never fired a shot and it was one of the best springs I've ever had. this spring I wanted to go back to polk stocks so I got a 12 & 20 and got a bird with each but, for me, it is not about killing a gobbler but beating him on his turf.  this young look at me camera crowd are all about killing "ANYTHING" on camera just for the innerweb praise. I was talking to a very old hunting buddy (both in our 60's) and he said we were the last generation of the real hunters.  he went on to explain that we started out as a kid following a dad, grandpa, uncle or maybe even an older cousin without a gun until they thought we were responsible enough to carry one then, we stuck right with them and learned everything we could until they trusted us to be on our own. if you shot it you ate it and you DID NOT go blasting away at anything. now-a-days 6 year old kids are killing trophy animals with all the modern technology available to aid them. not knocking the kids but they are not being taught any values or wordsmanship other than kill, kill, kill. to this new camera innerweb crowd if you don't kill a "wall hanger" you're an inferior hunter.  hate to tell them but without all the modern technology these cameras hero's couldn't kill a bullfrog with a baseball bat inside a water bucket.  a few years ago I was listening to one of these camera innerweb hero's telling a guy in a LGS what all he had killed on camera with the help of this app and this cell camera and so on. the guy behind the counter was a rough looking much older fellow wearing bib overalls with a long bushy beard. he looked at the young guy and said..."see them stick bows over there hanging on the wall?"  the young guy replied "yes Sir." the old guy said "I tell you what...I'll give you one and you go out and film killing a few crows with it and then you'll impress me.  young guy shook his head and said "you just don't get it" and walked out.   

[silvestris]

We hunt to kill, but there is so much more than just the dead bird.  My dear departed friend,Ken Morgan, said "anybody can kill a turkey, but not many know how to hunt one."

[Mountainburd]

All great posts.  Not only is social media ruining the sport, it's also ruining our society.  I have no interest in the reaping.  I never tried it and most likely never will.

[topnotch]

We hunt to kill, but there is so much more than just the dead bird.  My dear departed friend,Ken Morgan, said "anybody can kill a turkey, but not many know how to hunt one."

Amen to Mr Morgan's wisdom.

[Prospector]

Be careful. You'll be labeled a whiner just like me. And just like me, you're kinda hinting gimmicks, crutches and tech is putting more killers in the woods.... Makes me wonder, if all those were eliminated, would there be less killers out there taking the easy ( limit) ways.... Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...